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Turning up the heat


junglejohn

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Winter is on the way and in Ohio we never know what to expect but I do know it is coming. While I was working I only worked on the weekends in my shop. But now I am looking at having 7 days a week. Don't get me wrong, I love my wife of 50 years but the prospect of being in the house 24/7? I shudder at the prospect. I currently use a couple of kerosene heaters to take the edge off of 30 degree days but I don't think that will cut it. I don't want a wood stove either. I am thinking I need a better solution. Maybe a gas heater? Propane or natural? Ceiling unit or floor unit? Suggestions? My shop is about 16 ft. X 50 ft and has decent insulation in the walls and ceiling.    

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John, my dad has one of these, he uses it in his 24 x 24 garage shop, he fires it up for about 8 minutes during his cold mountain mornings and he's sweating, the heat from that one blast sticks around for a a couple hours, then he gives it another fire up as needed, typically in a couple hours or so, he just blasts it for about 3 to 5 minutes and the shop is warm and toasty again. They do have then with thermostats so you would not have to fire it up manually as needed.

I am not sure about the one pictured, but dad's runs off both Kerosene and Diesel, the diesel is less expensive and he uses it exclusively.

 

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My shop heater is a ProCom propane heater. Ventless and puts out 30000 BTUs.  It heats a well insulated 24X36 shop. Set at it's lowest setting overnight, it keeps the shop at 40°. Necessary because our well water pressure pump and tank reside in the shop. Up here in the mountains, it can get to 5° and lower. 

ProCom-Heating-MNSD300TBA-Blue-flame-Heater.jpg.d759554245db3dcd0ff73957757f0f12.jpg

https://www.usaprocom.com/product-category/wall-heaters/blue-flame/page/2/

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I have a small portable 220 volt electric heater and an appropriate extension cord.  Our winters are much more mild, and I seldom use it.  When I do though, I am only heating up that part of the shop where I am working.

I considered a salamander like John shows, but you got to have the space cleared out around it and it pumps out a fair amount of moisture and kerosene/diesel stink.  And you need a good place to store it during the summer.

This is the one I have, from Northern Tool:

 

1151953766_ScreenShot2020-09-08at7_45_23AM.png.ab66ab5365209ec5504c68c8514c81a9.png

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You didn't mention what you're willing to spend, so my advice may not be along the lines you're thinking. First, when I retired 18 years ago, I knew I need a shop to stay out of my wife's hair....fortunately I had one, and we've moved twice since then and I still have a shop.  If you're going to spend a lot of time in there (I did at first, though that has decreased a little as I've aged and my Marie's health got worse) I think you want full time heat. Besides, there may be things in there that you don't want frozen. So (I'm about 70 miles north of you) I had gas forced air heaters in my shops. The first was a wall unit (fit between the studs), and the second and third (the current one) were ceiling hung models. Mine are LP, since I don't have nat gas, and the shop is about 900 square feet with a 10' ceiling. Last year the cost to heat (50º when I'm not in there, and 65º when I am) was about $400 (+/-) for the year, including this past cold spring we had. You can get a 45K BTU unit from Menard's for something like $400, and then install it yourself or hire someone. A better idea, if you want to spend the money would be a Mini-split. Gene can fill you in on these, but you'll get both heat and AC from the same unit, and they run on electric (very efficiently). If I was doing mine over that's what I would have. Lastly, if you have a source of firewood, how about a wood burning stove? There are some downsides (slow to heat up, you need wood, and dispose of the ashes, and that doesn't even touch on insurance issues, building codes, stuff like that) ut there is something really nice about woodworking with the sound of a crackling fire going.

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I'm thinking of using a mini split in the new shop. My only reservation is sawdust. The filters in our mini splits in the house get cleaned once a month. They're never really dirty. But, in a shop??? A/C and heat in the shop would be nice though. Each of ours heats and cools about 1000 SQ ft. quite well. Ours were professionally installed however, if you're handy, it can be DIY job. Unit costs vary a lot. Ours were approximately $2500 each, installed. We needed a new AC anyway so, it was a wash. The heat capability was a bonus. We eliminated our propane furnaces and, that saved a ton. Our electric bill only increased about $12.

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Gene I tape a 20 x 16 over the intake side of my ref air conditioner and I will guarantee the saw dust will clog up the coils big time if a person don't use a filter in the shop... Some of the filter hangs down past the coils so you can see in a very short time how much dust moves in the shop...

  I don't think the two way window models are near what you said yours cost!!!

I also change the house filters once a month and are still useable in the shop but I do blow the dust out before taping one on.

   Winter time here is not so bad so I use a small electric heater for my shop and I stuffed all the insulation in the 6" walls that would go but I only work in part of my shop in the winter which is 30 x 25 or so. I think the extra insulation is what keeps me out there in the winter. 

Edited by Smallpatch
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For your shop of 800 sq ft you need 18,000 BTU's of heat capacity.  A 19,000 BTU heater will work but require longer run times. Thinking electric heat here.

 

I have a 19,000 BTU heater also from Northern that is 220 volts.  Run it about an hour to bring shop up from 55F to 80 F then cut it off.  Last a good 5-6 hours during daytime. Less in evening.

 

To keep shop stable overnight  at 50-55 use a electric radiator heater. Little 110 volt job. 

 

So a tiered approach in 1st keeping shop stable at 50F and then the main heat when working in shop for an hour. 

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5 hours ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

You didn't mention what you're willing to spend, so my advice may not be along the lines you're thinking. First, when I retired 18 years ago, I knew I need a shop to stay out of my wife's hair....fortunately I had one, and we've moved twice since then and I still have a shop.  If you're going to spend a lot of time in there (I did at first, though that has decreased a little as I've aged and my Marie's health got worse) I think you want full time heat. Besides, there may be things in there that you don't want frozen. So (I'm about 70 miles north of you) I had gas forced air heaters in my shops. The first was a wall unit (fit between the studs), and the second and third (the current one) were ceiling hung models. Mine are LP, since I don't have nat gas, and the shop is about 900 square feet with a 10' ceiling. Last year the cost to heat (50º when I'm not in there, and 65º when I am) was about $400 (+/-) for the year, including this past cold spring we had. You can get a 45K BTU unit from Menard's for something like $400, and then install it yourself or hire someone. A better idea, if you want to spend the money would be a Mini-split. Gene can fill you in on these, but you'll get both heat and AC from the same unit, and they run on electric (very efficiently). If I was doing mine over that's what I would have. Lastly, if you have a source of firewood, how about a wood burning stove? There are some downsides (slow to heat up, you need wood, and dispose of the ashes, and that doesn't even touch on insurance issues, building codes, stuff like that) ut there is something really nice about woodworking with the sound of a crackling fire going.

I am prepared to spend $1500 or so but depending on the operating costs, convenience and fuel type I would pay more is I felt it was appropriate. I just purchased a 12,000 BTU window A/C which does an adequate job so I a primarily interested in just heat. My initial thinking is John's suggested DynaGlo 50K BTU unit combined with Dan's suggested thermostat. I would also get a carbon monoxide detector. The Unit is about $1000 and since it can use regular diesel fuel filling up a couple of 5 gal. cans might be the way to go. Gene's suggested Mini-Split system seems nice but I really don't need the A/C function. I have a little time to decide so I will ponder it. I probably should look at a propane option with a large tank setting outside the building but I will need to check about access to get it refilled and the costs of a larger tank. I have pretty well eliminated wood even though fire wood would be free and plentiful. There is a lot to consider. I am zoned agricultural so codes are pretty relaxed but insurance impact is also something that needs investigating. I want to keep it as simple as possible as I don't need 70 Deg. Even 55 to 60 would be fine. There is a lot to consider. More than I first realized.        

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6 minutes ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

You might need it a little warmer than that if using certain glues and finishes. Just keep that in mind. Any of the waterborne finishes need to be almost 70º (I think), and some glues need to be warmer to cure.

I agree. Add to that we ain't getting any younger people.  Cold weather is felt to the bones. :D. The pins in my wrist and arm really don't like colder than 60F.

 

Lot of good advice so far. Do some research. See what works best for your budget and needs.

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4 hours ago, Smallpatch said:

Thats good to know Gene. If I ever have a need to move I might go that way....Never seen one like that but the last time we were shopping was around 22 years ago.. How big can you go with units like that..

Not sure,  Jesse. The largest ones I've seen have been 42000 BTU units, with 5 indoor wall units. 

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If you have natural gas available, it's generally cheaper than propane.   That said, i didn't and have a 500 gallon tank in the back yard that's accessible from the drive when the truck backs up to get closer.  I'm guessing they have 100' of hose on that truck.   The tank is provided by the propane company but you can buy your own (i have heard) and new ones used to be $1k - don't know what they are now.   You would have to have it placed and leveled and have the copper to run to the house/garage/shop - that's all they use here to run the gas - black pipe from  outside at the controller to inside devices (we have hot water, furnace, stove, dryer all on propane - it's worked well for 30+ years).   Changing suppliers can be a pain - check with your neighbors for good/bad and check prices and general service reliability.   Our current supplier is good and made an emergency trip out the day a dead tree broke off the valve and gas was going everywhere - yeah, that was exciting.:JawDrop: Go through a couple of tanks a year on cold years - call for refill at 20-25% and they're generally out in a couple of days.

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18 hours ago, Fred W. Hargis Jr said:

You might need it a little warmer than that if using certain glues and finishes. Just keep that in mind. Any of the waterborne finishes need to be almost 70º (I think), and some glues need to be warmer to cure.

Well, I figure that I can have the temp a bit lower when doing the cutting, shaping, joinery and sanding then turn it up for several days to do the finishing. But frankly I am still considering options and investigating the ups and downs of each. But if I am going to have to schedule professional help for installation I need to get it done before the winter rush for service. I generally use Tite-Bond II and III and I haven't noticed any issues in the 55-65 degree temp range.

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1 hour ago, PeteM said:

I don't like air movement when dust is present, so I've always used infrared, ceiling or high wall mounted units.  They come in a very wide variety of sizes and power and source (elec, gas, prop).  Don't need to clean as often (the elements usually burn off particles). 

I agree the forced air is a bit of a problem with the dust. It helps to have an ambient air cleaner to clean the air before doing finishing....as well as just keeping the dust down somewhat.

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