Red oak air drying

[Thomas_Z]

Hello everyone. I do not actually work with wood, my father does. He's just not that good with internet  He asked me to look for some information about how to air dry 4/4 red oak properly because he had some problems as I understand. Does he need any dehumidifiers and fans? That's the question from me. I was reading that one guy was using 2 dehumidifiers and a fan for that. Let me know if I get it completely wrong.

[Ron Dudelston]

Thomas, welcome.  I’ll throw my two cents worth in before everyone else.  There are a lot of variables but the buy is to get rid of the moisture.  Be sure the oak is stickered allowing air to move around and through the stack of wood.  Your location will place into the mix also.  One of ate the sites administrators lives in Northern Alabama and he dries his lumber is a large pole building where the sun heats the building enough that it is like a kiln.  I live in the north and the drying process takes longer.  As for a dehumidifier, I personally wouldn’t think spend the money.   It will simply take time to dry it.

[John Morris]

Thomas what area does your dad live in? And, what problems is he having currently?

[Gene Howe]

As Ron stated, your dad's area is a factor. The rule of thumb for freshly cut, stickered and stacked wood in a shed, is 1 yr. of drying for each inch of board thickness. That varies due to the area's relative humidity. Fans will hasten the process. Also, if it dries too fast, you may get some cracks on the ends. If that's a concern, a coat of cheap latex paint on the board ends will definitely help.

If your dad will be drying lots of wood, he might consider investing in a moisture meter. Here's the one I use. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SZX8QXH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Gerald]

Note for oak use oak or plastic for the stickers as the tannins in the wood will cause staining. If you have a box to dry in or kiln then that is where the dehumidifier and fan come in. If doing this outdoors he will want to cover the stack and leave the sides open for fresh air circulation.

[Gunny]

Do not put in the attic thinking this is a  great kiln.  Don't ask how I know.  

[Thomas_Z]

We live in Bend, Oregon. 

1 hour ago, Woodbutcherbynight said:

Do not put in the attic thinking this is a  great kiln.  Don't ask how I know.  

Too little too late))
As I understood he stored oak in the attic, but the attic is isolated, so the humidity level was different from outside. Now, after he placed his office table in the room, the surface is warped, and a door can not be opened. And again, just for my understanding, how the region influences lumber quality? 
 

 

8 hours ago, Gerald said:

Note for oak use oak or plastic for the stickers as the tannins in the wood will cause staining. If you have a box to dry in or kiln then that is where the dehumidifier and fan come in. If doing this outdoors he will want to cover the stack and leave the sides open for fresh air circulation.

Yeah, that's why I'm talking about purchasing a fan or dehumidifier (or both). I guess he just will try to set proper temperature and humidity level in the attic

Edited December 11, 2019 by Thomas_Z

[Gunny]

2 minutes ago, Thomas_Z said:

And again, just for my understanding, how the region influences lumber quality? 

A tree like any other living thing is a product of it's environment.   Things like access to water, sunlight, good soil, air quality humidity, temperature range all factor in.  

[Gene Howe]

I think, when we mentioned area, we were considering the region's normal humidity level and it's effect on drying time. ie, In AZ, drying time would likely be half of that in FL. 

[Michael Thuman]

I have been drying wood for years.  The key is to slowly move it into the shop which shold have the same realitive humidity as the area it will be displayed.  The attic is just too hot and dry it is like an uncontrolled kiln. 

I think what happened is the attic dryed out the oak too much then when placed in the house it swelled.

You mentioned the door is stuck is this an overlay door or a fitted door to the frame?

How is the top attached to the frame?

Can you please upload pictures?

Please send us pictures with examples of the construction.

 

When green paint the last 6" to 8" with a latex paint. (To hopefully stop splits)

Sticker it with 1/2" x 2" x stack width of rough sawn (same species as stack).

Put the thicker peices on the bottom and use a 4"x4" sticker on the bottom to alleviate splash.

Purchase a heavy duty tarp and cover the stack.  Make sure the stack if covered on all sides like a tent but not tight or tight to the ground.  Normally I use bricks and keep the tarp away from the stack by 2' in all directions and keep the tarp 3" off the ground.  On warm sunny days you can open the sides of the stack but make sure it is properly covered when raining.

When the Relative Humidity (RH) is down to double what your final RH is move the stack inside. 

Hopefully your shop is conditioned air the same as the house.

Keep the same stack and close to the same stacking where heavy thick items are on the bottom.  There is no need for a tarp.  Rotate that back to your next stack.

Monitor the stack inside and you can use it when the stack's RH is within 3% of the final enviroment.

Use quater sawn stock for face frames and door stile and rails (it expands 1/2 that of flat sawn).  

Design the peices to allow for expansion and contraction. 

Finish all 6 sides of all peices to stop uneven mositure absorbtion.

 

 

[Gunny]

2 hours ago, Michael Thuman said:

I think what happened is the attic dryed out the oak too much then when placed in the house it swelled.

The piece I left in my attic for 10 years, yeah it swelled...….. LIKE A SPONGE.    I had stuck it into a stack that was rather tight.  Upon my return it had jammed the stack inside the box.  

[Gerald]

3 hours ago, Michael Thuman said:

 

When the Relative Humidity (RH) is down to double what your final RH is move the stack inside. 

Hopefully your shop is conditioned air the same as the house.

Keep the same stack and close to the same stacking where heavy thick items are on the bottom.  There is no need for a tarp.  Rotate that back to your next stack.

Monitor the stack inside and you can use it when the stack's RH is within 3% of the final enviroment.

 

Some good points but note Relative Humidity is moisture in the air and not what is in wood. That is MC or moisture content and is expressed as a percent. Now that brings up another topic what kind of meter to use. Pinned meters are most popular and cheapest but will only measure a small distance into the wood. Pinless have gained a lot of ground and measure deeper in the wood.

 

MEQ or moisture equilibrium is a word we use in turning. This means the wood is mostly dry or is not losing weight daily. It can be turned but will still dry more. This is not a significant useage for flat work where you will want the MC at 12% or less.

 

Now there is that other thing Michael touched on stabilization. Your shop will not match the environment the piece will finally reside perfectly as most shops have no central or are only used while shop is occupied. A home will be conditioned 24 hours a day. To ease this a little we let the wood acclimate in the shop for at least 7 days before working it and some go as far as 14 days. Again not a guarantee but it helps. 

[Michael Thuman]

2 hours ago, Gerald said:

Some good points but note Relative Humidity is moisture in the air and not what is in wood. That is MC or moisture content and is expressed as a percent. Now that brings up another topic what kind of meter to use. Pinned meters are most popular and cheapest but will only measure a small distance into the wood. Pinless have gained a lot of ground and measure deeper in the wood.

 

MEQ or moisture equilibrium is a word we use in turning. This means the wood is mostly dry or is not losing weight daily. It can be turned but will still dry more. This is not a significant useage for flat work where you will want the MC at 12% or less.

 

Now there is that other thing Michael touched on stabilization. Your shop will not match the environment the piece will finally reside perfectly as most shops have no central or are only used while shop is occupied. A home will be conditioned 24 hours a day. To ease this a little we let the wood acclimate in the shop for at least 7 days before working it and some go as far as 14 days. Again not a guarantee but it helps. 

Thanks Gerald, Sorry what I mistated but please also always design for MC or RH changes in your furniture builds so that doors do not swell and stick and so that they do not split or crack.  I did forget to mention that when I bring the stack inside to come to its final MC before working it that normally takes from one to 3 months.

I have had cherry and red oak and white oak and maple stickered in my shop for years now and as I use them I just toss my stickers into a box for reuse.

 

 

[Gerald]

2 hours ago, Michael Thuman said:

Thanks Gerald, Sorry what I mistated but please also always design for MC or RH changes in your furniture builds so that doors do not swell and stick and so that they do not split or crack.  I did forget to mention that when I bring the stack inside to come to its final MC before working it that normally takes from one to 3 months.

I have had cherry and red oak and white oak and maple stickered in my shop for years now and as I use them I just toss my stickers into a box for reuse.

 

 

I have never heard the 3 month figure but like you I have lumber in my shop that has been there in excess of 5 years so I just use it and since I do not use a large volume it is never a problem. Now as to turning wood that is a different story.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Gerald

[Gunny]

23 minutes ago, Gerald said:

Now as to turning wood that is a different story.

I agree, because the wood I have for turning was given to me long ago, +10-15 years and has been in the shop since.  Life tends to throw other projects my way and I rarely get to turn for more than a few days at one sitting.  

[PostalTom]

On 12/11/2019 at 5:09 PM, Woodbutcherbynight said:

more than a few days at one sitting.

You sit for a few days at a time?  Don't your legs fall asleep?

[Gene Howe]

8 minutes ago, PostalTom said:

You sit for a few days at a time?  Don't your legs fall asleep?

I'll bet he has to get up to refill his coffee cup every so often. Then, there's the resulting boy's room visits.

[Masonsailor]

I agree with the three months in the shop figure. Most of the time a wood supplier is getting shipments of wood from areas that have very different ambient moisture levels from where you live. Usually, and especially for me here in the desert you need to let wood acclimate before you start making projects out of it. If not the results can be disastrous. 
Paul

[DRAGON1]

On 12/10/2019 at 11:24 PM, Thomas_Z said:

We live in Bend, Oregon. 

Too little too late))
As I understood he stored oak in the attic, but the attic is isolated, so the humidity level was different from outside. Now, after he placed his office table in the room, the surface is warped, and a door can not be opened. And again, just for my understanding, how the region influences lumber quality? 
 

 

Yeah, that's why I'm talking about purchasing a fan or dehumidifier (or both). I guess he just will try to set proper temperature and humidity level in the attic

Not enough air circulation in the attic and most desks are also veneered over other boards making them highly susceptible to damage.