No profit margin

[John Moody]

On 6/18/2017 at 0:46 PM, DAB said:

 

there was an article long ago in the Wood magazine about a guy who made wooden bowls.  he had a special jig and could crank these out in no time.  when he got a pile (50 or more) made, he'd bring them down to the local market, they'd buy the whole pile at his price, and then turn around and put them on the shelf, marked at 2x what they had just paid him.  and the market would sell them out before the weekend was over.

 

so who's making money?

 

the woodworker?  well, he's getting his price, but the buying public is willing to pay more.

 

the shopkeeper?  he's selling them as fast as he's getting them, low risk, doubles his money in a weekend.

 

 

 

 

Seems to me both were happy with the arrangement!

[John Moody]

I'm not too sure about this whole topic. I make wood items and I sell them and I make a profit. I charge a fair price and I'm happy with it. If I under price it then it's my fault. I purchase my raw materials at a very good price allowing me to price things where I can make money.

I'm not chained to my shop and work as much as I want to. I have made cutting boards and shipped to Japan and England along with many states. I worked with a designer on a project in Vermont that went in a multi-million dollar house where every piece of furniture was made by a different artesian.  I have plenty of time to do my bookkeeping without it being a distraction from my woodworking and when I'm woodworking I'm not worrying about paperwork. 

 

Every tool in my shop has been paid for by what I have made. I started small and each year I'm upgraded a tool. I've purchased three trailers that were all paid for by my woodworking. Upgraded my dust collection and paid for a shop expansion with my work. I have regular customers that call me when they need things. I sell to people I don't know but they like my work enough to put down their money for my product.

 

I don't try to make a living, I've already done that, but I do make enough to spend on my hobbies and my woodworking. 

 

I've sold things for wholesale but priced to so I still made a profit and yes they sold it for more but it had my logo on it.

 

Im sorry if you can't make a profit but don't put everyone in that category. I make and sell over 250 cutting boards a year along with pieces of furniture and other projects I do. I'm happy and well fed.

 

I consider paying my taxes as being successful also. 

 

Im currently working on about five projects and a set of tables that will be shipped to Mass. 

 

so please put me in the category that can make a profit.

 

 

 

[Ron Dudelston]

I have to agree with John Moody on this one.  There was a time when I was first starting out that profit did not come easily but I chalked that time up to building my reputation.  I didn't retire 9 years ago to make woodworking my full time career but instead to use woodworking as a creative tool as I aged.  Fortunately, I have been successful enough to pay for my materials, create some satisfied customers, buy a whole bunch of new tools and also to supplement my income.  Upon the advice of my accountant, I just recently raised my hourly rate and so far it hasn't reduced my work load.  All that being said, if this whole woodworking thing stops being fun, then I'll quit it and go back to building kites.

[Smallpatch]

All the people I know who ended up owning a woodworking business also had other income so they all did not have to turn a profit each and every week doing woodworking to pay their bills. I was one of the ones I am talking about. My wife was an RN and I was a full time paid fire fighter..

   I still feel there is not enough hours in each day for a one man shop especially if he is married with kids at home and is paying 1400 a month or more for the building he is renting for his business... Not even counting if the guy is paying for his home and making car payments..Then add all the other expenses that he will have, nope, the joy of owning a business will turn into a daily horror show.

   My time was back in the fifties and sixties when there was an Air Force base just out of town and I took care of the damaged claims caused by  Mayflower, Allied and United Van lines of moving the Air Force people all over the country. Me and my little touch up kit by Mohawk made me lots of bucks back then...

[Gerald]

5 hours ago, John Morris said:

I do admire the time the retired folks get to spend in their shops! I am jealous!

You have to do the time to enjoy the rewards. Oh, then we thumb our nose at the working world.

[CharlieL]

11 hours ago, John Morris said:

 

Charlie, I think all in all we are all on the same side, and we are actually supporting the same ideas here, but just presenting them differently at this point. 

 

Naw John, your a little different. You have advertisers, and you ask for donations, plus you have people working in this forum for free. Your more inclined to promote anything woodworking related, I'm not. I gave that up about a year or so ago and could careless about promoting woodworking and tool and machine retailers, etc. It's not worth it, and not my job. My experience with it all became a total waste of time. Nowdays everyone just wants to take advantage of you if you let them, those days are over for me. It's not like the days all that long ago where if you had a good idea you had a chance to be recognized and compensated for it from a magazine. Two of my ideas were recognized and I received a small amount of compensation for them, but who cares right ? If you think that I'm the only one that has lost a lot of the passion for woodworking, your just fooling yourself.

Edited June 20, 2017 by CharlieL

[CharlieL]

11 hours ago, DAB said:

 If i was just cranking out work blindly, not knowing who was getting it, and they not knowing who made it, that would reduce me to an assembly line worker, not someone who puts his heart and soul and imagination into each piece.  

 

 Be careful with what you say. Call me stupid if you wish, but I was a meat cutter for about 20 years. 10 of those years in a packing plant deboning and trimming pork legs to be hams. it wasn't an easy job juggling pork legs, and I did put pride in my work. 

[John Morris]

2 hours ago, Gerald said:

You have to do the time to enjoy the rewards. Oh, then we thumb our nose at the working world.

12 more years Gerald! But I don't want it to go too quick, I am enjoying my family, my kids being young, I wish I could freeze time sometimes. Or take it back to when all my kids loved cartoons.

[John Morris]

2 hours ago, CharlieL said:

Naw John, your a little different. You have advertisers, and you ask for donations, plus you have people working in this forum for free. Your more inclined to promote anything woodworking related, I'm not. I gave that up about a year or so ago and could careless about promoting woodworking and tool and machine retailers, etc. It's not worth it, and not my job. My experience with it all became a total waste of time. Nowdays everyone just wants to take advantage of you if you let them, those days are over for me. It's not like the days all that long ago where if you had a good idea you had a chance to be recognized and compensated for it from a magazine. Two of my ideas were recognized and I received a small amount of compensation for them, but who cares right ? If you think that I'm the only one that has lost a lot of the passion for woodworking, your just fooling yourself.

Good luck Charlie. You have my best positive vibes being sent your way, I do hope someday you find happiness sir. Till then, keep coming back here, we'll wear on ya soon enough. We are a bunch of great folks here.

Oh ya, people working for free? Man that's news to us!! Oh wait a minute, I work here for free too!

[Cal]

I consider paying my taxes as being successful also. 

 

Thank you for this John.

 

CharlieL - you said you have lost your passion for woodworking.  But, you have only recently joined TPWW - I hope that is because you want to get some of that back.  I am sure that you have much that you can contribute.

Cal

[John Morris]

8 minutes ago, clhyer said:

I am sure that you have much that you can contribute.

Ya man! Share and Learn! We are all better off when we come together and share, and learn from each-other. I'm telling ya, we are an infectious bunch here, if Charlie sticks around, we'll rub off on him.

[CharlieL]

14 hours ago, clhyer said:

CharlieL - you said you have lost your passion for woodworking.  But, you have only recently joined TPWW - I hope that is because you want to get some of that back.  I am sure that you have much that you can contribute.

Cal

John and Cal, unlike most here, I'm not retired and I doubt that I'll ever be able too. For a while now I've been looking for work, I tried my own thing with dust collection improvements and that has turned out to be a huge disappointment. Right now I don't need to be around  a lot of people that do not value my experience, time, and ideas. Not saying that some of you wouldn't, but just a simple thank you does not pay the bills, and because of that I don't share as much with people as I use too.

Edited June 21, 2017 by CharlieL

[John Morris]

13 minutes ago, CharlieL said:

John and Cal, unlike most here, I'm not retired and I doubt that I'll ever be able too. For a while now I've been looking for work, I tried my own thing with dust collection improvements and that has turned out to be a huge disappointment. Right now I don't need to be around  a lot of people that do not value my experience, time, and ideas. Not saying that some of you wouldn't, but just a simple thank you does not pay the bills, and because of that I don't share as much with people as I use too.

It's fine Charlie. Hey you know what, I am still working too, but I am not at retirement age yet. I will retire hopefully in 10 to 12 years, depending when my last kid gets out of college. But I plan on working the rest of my life too, hopefully working the wood after I retire to make ends meet, we'll see. It's just a fact I have accepted.

Charlie, you don't have to share here, just hang out and chat, if you want. Many of us are up to a phone call too, any time sir. I know chatting and reading, and talking don't pay the bills, but it can pay the soul pretty good. Thanks for being here.

[Kevin Beitz]

I make good money with my wood projects. But I only do it

because it's FUN... My problem is that I spend all the money

on more tools... And more tools...

[Gunny]

3 hours ago, Kevin Beitz said:

My problem is that I spend all the money

on more tools...

That's not a problem.  That is a reward for hard work!!

[1fizgig]

Hey gang, I realise this is a touchy subject. My underlining 2 cents is that as long as it's fun and you're happy with what you earn (if you do - zero judgement from me - I give stuff away too, and haven't had paying clients yet), then that is the most important thing, regardless of what anyone else thinks it should or should not be.

 

When I was doing a small computer business in New Zealand (as a side to my fulltime job as a baker), I found that even charging a meager 5% over cost of parts and not much in labour, people still did not want to pay me for quality parts and service. They'd rather buy big-box stores cheap quality (and sometimes pay more doing so). I still enjoyed doing what I did, and nobody could change that.

 

Those that came back definitely were repeat customers and happy with the service, and most of the time, the cost. But there were many, many that got a quote I never heard from again.

 

The same can apply to woodworking in my opinion (such as it is). There are people that will appreciate the love and care we put into our work, and for that they will pay, they will refer others, and they will be good people to deal with. There will be others who will balk at the costs, make disparaging comments about how much cheaper things are at retail stores and not understand the quality or the craftmanship if you like, of what we can and will deliver. And we have to be okay with that too.

 

We can choose to let it get to us, or not. But no matter who turns up asking, choose to enjoy what you do, regardless. That is the quality of life thing to remember. When it stops being that good, rest it. If it's still a passion you'll pick it up. But never let it become a drudge, even when it's your livelihood. Your spark matters, and it matters to your customers.

 

[John Morris]

30 minutes ago, 1fizgig said:

We can choose to let it get to us, or not. But no matter who turns up asking, choose to enjoy what you do, regardless. That is the quality of life thing to remember. When it stops being that good, rest it. If it's still a passion you'll pick it up. But never let it become a drudge, even when it's your livelihood. Your spark matters, and it matters to your customers.

Amen brother!

[Gene Howe]

I've never had a job I didn't like. And, I can't remember one woodworking endeavor that wasn't enjoyable. 

[Gunny]

1 hour ago, Gene Howe said:

I've never had a job I didn't like.

Me either but I have had a few supervisors that a slow roasting over a fire was considered appropriate and worth the 10-15 in prison.  

[DuckSoup]

16 minutes ago, Woodbutcherbynight said:

I have had a few supervisors that a slow roasting over a fire was considered appropriate

 My wife always said she never quit a job because of the job, she quit because of the boss. I always enjoyed what I did but couldn't always find the right place to do it.