Ralph Allen Jones Posted January 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 When we take an old heir loom that has been setting in an old barn or shed for years and we turn it back into a beautiful piece of furniture again and the clients are so happy of the way you refurbished it, they tell others and this is how you build a business. I no longer have to advertise except for my web site on the internet. The kind things you do for folks does have good returns. www.ralphjonesworkshop.com FlGatorwood, HARO50, DuckSoup and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Dudelston Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 46 minutes ago, Ralph Allen Jones said: When we take an old heir loom that has been setting in an old barn or shed for years and we turn it back into a beautiful piece of furniture again and the clients are so happy of the way you refurbished it, they tell others and this is how you build a business. I no longer have to advertise except for my web site on the internet. The kind things you do for folks does have good returns. www.ralphjonesworkshop.com Ralph, one of my wife's favorite rockers came from a local thrift store. She came dragging this chair home like a puppy from a refuge center and it looked like it had been through a bar room brawl. Three of the five back slats were broken and the chair needed some love. In its time, the chair had been a nice piece and after a lot of work and love, it has been restored to its former glory. From a worldly standpoint, I spent too much time on the chair but it brought joy to my wife to have it restored so it is priceless. There may be a sermon in that chair too. FlGatorwood, HARO50, Cal and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieL Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) A few of you mention that your retired, well not all of us are retired. I'm not retired, I've been pretty much a blue collar skilled worker all my life, and I have some very strong feelings about where things have been and are headed, and it's not good. You cannot expect people to be interested in work where there is very little to no compensation in it, especially when they have to invest so much in to time, tools, machinery, and shop space just to get started. People are getting to be terribly greedy and rude to the point of being personally insulting. I use to have a lot of pride and a really strong and passion for woodworking for close to 30 years, and dust collection for about the last 10 years. In the last couple years I've been losing interest to the point that last year I didn't do much at all. Edited January 18, 2017 by CharlieL FlGatorwood, HARO50 and Miataguy 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick486 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Gene Howe said: I'm an optimist. Things will turn around. agreed but for only a select group... those that think w/ their wallets will always be stuck there... HARO50, Miataguy and FlGatorwood 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John Morris Posted January 18, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 41 minutes ago, CharlieL said: In the last couple years I've been losing interest to the point that last year I didn't do much at all. Charlie, make us your world, here at TPW, ignore the noise on the outside, and get back in the shop and make some "stuff"!!!!! We want your projects and expertise here for all to benefit! By the way, I am not retired either,I can completely appreciate where your coming from. But danged this woodworking stuff is fun! DuckSoup, steven newman, Fred W. Hargis Jr and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post steven newman Posted January 18, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 In this town, the Boss has a relative that runs a re-finish & repair business. As a "sideline" he also repairs and sell lawn mowers. Both he learned from his dad, and Grandpa. Woodworking back when I was working at factory jobs...was a way to just relax, and forget about the daily grind. To use a term from today's group..."My Safe Place" was in the woodshop. I could even lock the door, and hide out there all day long. Never did have a phone in any of my shops, either. DuckSoup, HARO50, Cal and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kmealy Posted January 18, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 11 hours ago, hatuffej said: I'm retired and do WWing as a hobby rather than a commercial business. If someone brings something in for R/R, I'll do it (if I can) and charge them some low amount, like $5 or $10, or do it for free. If it takes more than an hour, I will charge them $10/hour. No offense, but that's part of the problem for someone trying to eek out a living doing this work. I read a guy describe this phenomenon on the internet quite a while ago (before starting my own business), probably talking about the plethora of crafty items: . "A bunch of guys out there with nothing better to do with their time. They don't keep track of their expenses or time and hope to 'get a little something to cover their wood and maybe get a new tool someday.' Producing what becomes an over-abundance of product to be disposed of at any cost. And doing a disservice to someone trying to make a living at it." So when a consumer sees such an item (turned pen, bowl, shelf, pet item, decorative art, etc.) at such a low price, they are shocked when someone like Matt Seiler, who is trying to make a living, pay taxes and insurance, rent, buy equipment and supplies wants to charge a living wage. Add to that an Asian manufacturer paying $1 a day for labor, using trash wood and covering with a dark finish or particle board and selling a complete 7 piece bedroom set for $799. For which the retailer spent $300, delivered to their warehouse. /soapbox HARO50, DAB, FlGatorwood and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAB Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 11 hours ago, Ron Dudelston said: You know DAB, sometimes it isn't all about the bottom line. If someone brought in a family heirloom wanting repaired, I'm just enough of a sap to fix it even if it cost me money. Guess I'm a Renaissance man. By the way, those jobs have a way of bringing in business in the long run. i don't have a business, i have no intention of starting and running a business. i looked into it, and quickly decided that it wasn't viable. assuming that i could find customers willing and able to pay what i would want, i saw no point in then turning over more than 1/2 my money to various gov't agencies for the privilege of working 8-10 hours a day. yeah: FICA - 15.3% Fed tax - 25% (i have other income sources, so any additional would likely kick me into the 25% bracket, and everything i made in my shop would be taxes at this next marginal rate) State - 5% local gross receipts tax - 8.2% total - 15.3 + 25 + 5 + 8.2 = 53.5% not to mention the paperwork burden i would have to absorb. tracking expenses - lumber, consumables, travel, shipping, advertising, shop and tool depreciation, all that unpaid time to track all this stuff for the benefit of gov't. forget it. i'll just do what i want to do. if the finances and paperwork burden change, then i may revisit this idea. As Sam Maloof described in his book long ago, very few woodworkers can make a living by their hands and what they produce in their shops. they either don't make money, or make money by selling plans (see Norm), conducting classes in their shops, or teaching woodworking in a local school. if you want to make money, you need to first sell the project, then make the project, and make sure you have charged enough to make a profit when you are done. there is no point in making 40 little things, and then spending your weekend at the craft fair hoping to unload them for less than the cost of materials and table fee and travel expense. you may as well just give them away and go home. Miataguy, Dadio, Cal and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAB Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, CharlieL said: A few of you mention that your retired, well not all of us are retired. I'm not retired, I've been pretty much a blue collar skilled worker all my life, and I have some very strong feelings about where things have been and are headed, and it's not good. You cannot expect people to be interested in work where there is very little to no compensation in it, especially when they have to invest so much in to time, tools, machinery, and shop space just to get started. People are getting to be terribly greedy and rude to the point of being personally insulting. I use to have a lot of pride and a really strong and passion for woodworking for close to 30 years, and dust collection for about the last 10 years. In the last couple years I've been losing interest to the point that last year I didn't do much at all. on the old wood forum, more than once someone would visit Matt's shop, or another for profit shop, inquire about an item being made just for them, a sketch might be produced, an estimate or quote given, and the customer would then have a financial heart attack. "why so much?" well lady, this project will take me 2 weeks of my time. how much do you make in 2 weeks? you will be paying for all the materials and consumables, as well as a fair rate for 2 weeks of my expertise. go hire a lawyer for 2 weeks. paper is pretty cheap, so is ink, but the expertise to put the right words on paper is what you are paying for. or you can go to the lumber store, buy the needed lumber, a few tools, and do it yourself while you take vacation time from your job. your call. Miataguy, FlGatorwood and HARO50 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HandyDan Posted January 18, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 57 minutes ago, kmealy said: No offense, but that's part of the problem for someone trying to eek out a living doing this work. I read a guy describe this phenomenon on the internet quite a while ago (before starting my own business), probably talking about the plethora of crafty items: . "A bunch of guys out there with nothing better to do with their time. They don't keep track of their expenses or time and hope to 'get a little something to cover their wood and maybe get a new tool someday.' Producing what becomes an over-abundance of product to be disposed of at any cost. And doing a disservice to someone trying to make a living at it." So when a consumer sees such an item (turned pen, bowl, shelf, pet item, decorative art, etc.) at such a low price, they are shocked when someone like Matt Seiler, who is trying to make a living, pay taxes and insurance, rent, buy equipment and supplies wants to charge a living wage. I had a guy want to buy one of my Yo-Yos. I told him ten dollars and he was shocked and refused. I explained to him that I make the axles for them on a lathe, process the wood and turn and sand them making sure they are perfectly balanced, put the finish on and make the string. I told him I never sold a one but got plenty of hundred dollar smiles from the many kids I have given them to. Cal, Stick486, Miataguy and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DAB Posted January 18, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) i have a friend, she's a very talented photographer, she had some sad life news, so i made her a little bowl to cheer her up. she in return sent me a beautiful photo she had taken. later, she posted another photo that was also beautiful, so i asked her for a print, she sent it, and i sent her a check (against her direction). talent should be encouraged and rewarded. another friend, a potter, posted some wonderful bowls she made, so we worked out a trade. i made her a wooden bowl, she made me a pottery bowl (actually, she sent 2 after getting my bowl). both are displayed in our house. i've given away to friends countless projects, and some have sent me $$ in return, many have covered my costs. but this is not running a business. these are not strangers to me. they are friends. that's different. yo-yos for kids? awesome idea! some guy wants to buy 20 and resell them on eBay? pass. those aren't for sale to you sir. another friend, just this past weekend, saw a project (a little box) i had made for a mutual friend. he told me about his loss of his doggie, which they had cremated, and wondered if he could hire me to make a box for the remains. i'll make you a box, and it'll be a gift. i'm almost done with it. several woods: mahogany, walnut, lacewood, purple heart, and maple. i hope he likes it. Edited January 18, 2017 by DAB Cal, FlGatorwood, HARO50 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stick486 Posted January 18, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 shoulda said 25... FlGatorwood, Miataguy, Ron Dudelston and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckSoup Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, Ralph Allen Jones said: further stated that our work in repair and restoration is becoming a thing of the past and I informed her that when I am no longer here that it would be even harder to find someone because no one wants to learn the trade anymore. I know the issue of repair has come up before ( broken spindle, chair, table) and the ideas for a solution vary. If you are asking if we would be interested in following a blog I for one would be. The many treads on these sites, from a simple box, scrolling, turning a bowl, or finishing has given me the confidence I needed to go into the shop and try to apply what I've read and move my skill level up one notch. I'm no designer, there are failures, but there is less trial and error. One of the advantages of the internet is meeting the people that do this work in the basements or out buildings that you would have never met otherwise. The talent and ideas are endless. Would I do it as a business, no. Make something that I think someone would like or use, yes. For me the satisfaction of making it makes the difference. Ralph, I downloaded this from your site in 2003 and have made several for different projects but if the knowledge isn't passed on it's just lost like a good cookie recipe that Mom use to made, you have to start from scratch. Edited January 18, 2017 by DuckSoup FlGatorwood, HARO50 and Dadio 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadio Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I have a set of these made for different width box joints . Instead of a sled I mount them on the miter gauge of the TS. Herb steven newman and FlGatorwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmealy Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 6 hours ago, DAB said: go hire a lawyer for 2 weeks. paper is pretty cheap, so is ink, but the expertise to put the right words on paper is what you are paying for. I was talking to a guy at the woodworking club last weekend. He's a psychologist (PhD, not MD). He said he does some contract work, $475/hr, 4 hour minimum. No office, no advertising, probably go and talk to someone for a while and write up a report. HARO50 and FlGatorwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadio Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, kmealy said: I was talking to a guy at the woodworking club last weekend. He's a psychologist (PhD, not MD). He said he does some contract work, $475/hr, 4 hour minimum. No office, no advertising, probably go and talk to someone for a while and write up a report. Sure looks like he has it figured out. Herb HARO50, Miataguy and FlGatorwood 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAB Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 i used to do engineering. a few years ago a former employer called and wanted to know if i could attend a meeting that was local to me. hour drive each way, hour long meeting, hour to write up my notes. sure, $125/hour.....hello? 'but you are just going to a meeting' yes, dear, i'm going to a meeting about a subject that i'm an expert on.....'ok, we'll pay that' after taxes, i pocketed about 1/2 that. or, i'll stay home, not cancel my dental appointment, and you can fly someone in at a greater expense. they haven't called since then. custom woodworking? sure. want to guess how much? 8 hour minimum. FlGatorwood and Miataguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marv Rall Posted January 20, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 I have the luxury of being retired and have been doing woodworking for 55+ years. Over the years being a charter member of our local Woodcrafters club and contributing to various charities has convinced many that I should be able to repair, fix, or otherwise solve broken and precious items. I do enjoy the challenge of a restoring repair and do limit what such challenges I accept. Mostly my work is for friends and family. Add to that church and charities------I do not charge---not all of life's activities are money centered, in my humble opinion. Most of the time folks are pleased and grateful and I will accept an adult beverage, or credit for a meal out etc. My overall philosophy is described well in the short video { What Matters} should be able to google this site. Gene Howe, DuckSoup, Ron Dudelston and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kevin Beitz Posted November 8, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 This is all about why I just love our local junkyard... No one fixes anything anymore. One of these days I'll start a new post (What i found at the junkyard today). I love fixing things. It keeps me busy. John Morris, Artie, Gunny and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gunny Posted November 9, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 9, 2019 17 hours ago, Kevin Beitz said: I love fixing things. It keeps me busy. I hear ya, I make a lot of stuff for the house from what others chunk in the trash. Hooked up with a guy that resells Ryobi stuff online. Brings me a box with a dozen or so cords that need ends or parts that are broken and I cannibalize another unit to get one working. Guy pays fair, I charge fair and when he came across something I was looking for he had a great price!! Got several other jobs from his friends wanting oddball stuff repaired. p_toad, steven newman, FlGatorwood and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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