Strength of rabbet and dado joint?

[kmealy 8,106]

Anyone done a rabbet and dado joint in 1/2" Baltic birch ply?  Would it be strong enough for a kitchen drawer - 24" wide and holding silverware.  I'm debating with myself what the best type of joint for the front.

[Stick486 38,806]

yes and yes...

3/16 deep rabbet... add mechanical fasteners.. be it only 3 pins, 2 narrow crown staples or 2 evenly spaced screws..... 

double rabbet is even stronger... more glue surface ...

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Stick486

[Michael Thuman 647]

Personally because it is a drawer front I would consider dovetails.

 

[John Morris 18,550]

Keith, are their design restrictions for not using 5/8ths or 3/4?

[PeteM 1,216]

1/2" BB is a bit skinny.  I did lock rabbet joints in 3/4 BB cabinet (joints were about 20 & 30" long).  It did ok, but I wouldn't do it again (I'd use pocket screws).  I found that the fine/thin laminations (esp in BB) tended to shred when cut partially, and you really have to work at it to get the depth exactly the same all along the seam.  You may also find that once you get exactly the same depth, the laminations aren't quite uniform, so you can see layers drift in/out of your cut.  If you get really "lucky" you may expose a glue layer, and then wonder how well glue sticks to glue.  On that project (3-in-1 crib and dresser, two of each) I learned that BB does indeed come in grades, and most sellers have no idea what they actually stock, or what the stamps on the BB mean.  One lot was so bad that when I cut a 2" strip (2x60), it separated along a layer that obviously had insufficient adhesive.  In large sections, the stuff (BB) is beauticious, but doesn't subdivide all that well in the laminate direction.  I ended up doing a lot of filler where some of the tabs on the female side of the lock rabbet broke off.

[Russboyd 75]

I do like Sticks upper pic all the time. Hasn't failed me yet and you know I've built a ton of drawers. I use the rabbit on the sides only because I feel it will survive best that way. Glue, brad nails and a couple of finishing screws.

[John Morris 18,550]

You may also consider solid wood for the drawers, if you do the math, often times it's the same cost. And, solid wood is just nicer to work with IMHO. I agree with @PeteM that 1/2" is pretty skinny for a case that takes a pretty good beating daily.

[Fred W. Hargis Jr 7,005]

I would at least use the drawer lock configuration, 24" is a lot of drawer...and it's filled with some relatively heavy stuff. I've done quite a few shop drawers out of 1/2" BB using the drawer lock. None haeve failed, even with the weight they carry.

[Marv Rall 278]

I have used such a joint for many applications. The modification I use is to leave no more than 1/8" material on the rabbit. Assemble with glue and 23 gauge pin nailer . On boxes etc. trim corner with a 45 degree router bit----- makes the joint virtually disappear-------In my experience this joint is as strong as any due to the glue surface, in the case of Baltic Birch 1/2", nearly 1"-----works for me.

[kmealy 8,106]

7 hours ago, Fred W. Hargis, Jr said:

I would at least use the drawer lock configuration, 24" is a lot of drawer...and it's filled with some relatively heavy stuff. I've done quite a few shop drawers out of 1/2" BB using the drawer lock. None haeve failed, even with the weight they carry.

Not sure what you mean by "drawer lock."

 

My main concern is the introduction of short grain due to plywood.   But this is what I had in mind:
 

 

Why 1/2?  

a ) That's what I have in stock

b ) 1/2" is normally what I see in drawer sides.

[John Morris 18,550]

 

Drawer lock joint and bit.

[John Morris 18,550]

49 minutes ago, kmealy said:

Not sure what you mean by "drawer lock."

 

My main concern is the introduction of short grain due to plywood.   But this is what I had in mind:
 

 

Why 1/2?  

a ) That's what I have in stock

b ) 1/2" is normally what I see in drawer sides.

That's a good solid joint Keith, I'd feel very comfy with that.

[Stick486 38,806]

1 hour ago, kmealy said:

 

 

My main concern is the introduction of short grain due to plywood.   But this is what I had in mind:
 

 

Why 1/2?  

a ) That's what I have in stock

b ) 1/2" is normally what I see in drawer sides.

that little block is the weak link... loose it ahead of time...

look to the 2nd pic and go that way..

 

½'' will be fine

[Fred W. Hargis Jr 7,005]

What you pictured is what I meant by drawer lock. I've used it quite a bit with 1/2" BB and haven't had a failure.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Fred W. Hargis, Jr

[Roly 398]

Same here.   No sign of any failure over 4 years old.   I do have the slow close slides which prevents a solid hit.    My silverware drawer is about 24" wide also.   Also have a 24" wide  deep drawer using the same joint and 1/2" plywood, no failures anywhere.   I also use 1/2" ply for the drawer bottom.   Roly

Edited October 2, 2016 by Roly

[kmealy 8,106]

Got the drawer box built and this week and installed today.   The old one had had several repairs done (poorly) by DPO (dreaded prior owner).  Big smile on my face as I tossed it in the garbage toter.

 

Making the new one was fine, getting installed was a pain.   12mm Baltic birch ply.   I wanted to replace the glides and I have a whole box full of cabinet glides,probably 30 sets or so, plus some odds and ends leftovers.   What I learned

There is no standardization between vendors

- K&V don't work with Belwith, not the glides, not the rear mounts, nothing.

- Due to old mods, the cabinet pieces needed to be 600 mm to reach the back support, the drawer pieces needed to be 550 mm to fully close and not interfere with the back support. 

- Do you think I had a combination with the Belwith?  Noooooo.   

- Do you think the K&V fit in the rear supports?   Noooo.  

-  Do you think the K&V rear supports were the same height as the Belwiths?  Noooo.

- Why did I have two left side K&V rear supports and no right side???

 

Ended up buying a whole new set and using half of each old and new set.  Thankfully the first store I went to had the right brand.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by kmealy

[Chips N Dust 8,751]

I feel your pain - reno jobs are almost always a PITA

[kmealy 8,106]

2 hours ago, Chips N Dust said:

I feel your pain - reno jobs are almost always a PITA

For some reason, drawer glides seem to lack any industry standards in any cabinet or piece of furniture I've worked on.  I also have a box of rear nylon supports for center glides that fit a variety of widths and depths.

[Stick486 38,806]

another day at ''Shop Okay Corral''??

like your rebate.. nicely done...

Edited October 29, 2016 by Stick486

[Warped & Twisted 995]

Over the past 19 years I've made tons of drawers at my job for the School District as Kmealy describes in his first post.

 

Glue them and brad nail through the side and they be fine. At the district we don't usually get fancy 1/2 BB just plywood.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Richard McComas