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Thanks John. Very interesting. I too love American History

5 hours ago, John Morris said:

Old systems of construction were discarded. The assembly process was now entrusted to the accomplished hands of a cabinetmaker.

I especially enjoyed the opening sentence as it pertained to the period of 1700-1730...

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7 hours ago, John Morris said:

If I ever get too wordy and long winded, I know my friends here will let me know.:D

Shut up I'm trying to get a word in here!:D  I liked the line.

 

Sophisticated style centers were able to duplicate a high-quality dovetail joint. Other more provincial craftsmen turned out immature versions, perhaps a drawer with one large crude joint instead of the multiple, finely cut dovetails that typify quality work.

 

Quality furniture vs Ikea even back then.

 

Edited by HandyDan
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2 hours ago, Fred W. Hargis, Jr said:

That really looks like an interesting book, so I checked. Many copies at Amazon for 1¢ (yep) plus $4 shipping. So I ordered one. Maybe I've been watching too much of Roy, but I'm also interested in the furniture history of the US. Thanks, John.

I am finding this really enlightening Fred, not only do you learn about the history of furniture, but you also glean from it how our society acted back then. I am making up for the years lost of not attending college, on a smaller level of course. But hey, it wasn't all lost, I served my country in lieu of!:)

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1 hour ago, Grandpadave52 said:

Thanks John. Very interesting. I too love American History

I especially enjoyed the opening sentence as it pertained to the period of 1700-1730...

It's amazing Dave how they even had the same dilemmas we have today in constructing furniture and the differing levels of workers and what they were capable of doing in the shop.

Are the 1700's one of your favorite periods in American History?

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32 minutes ago, HandyDan said:

Shut up I'm trying to get a word in here!:D  I liked the line.

 

Sophisticated style centers were able to duplicate a high-quality dovetail joint. Other more provincial craftsmen turned out immature versions, perhaps a drawer with one large crude joint instead of the multiple, finely cut dovetails that typify quality work.

 

Quality furniture vs Ikea even back then.

 

You bet. There was a separation of cabinetmakers during that time. The old peg joint and mortise and tenon were used dominantly for so long, for hundreds of years craftsman relied on those two joints in virtually everything they did. Just think in your mind, big, large, bulky timbers and framing used for tables, chairs, cabinets, the big bulky trestle tables that inhabited Viking halls, and the homes of peasants, and all the way up to the dining facilities of the royals, the frames were thick, big, and the casework was thick. It was common to have a cabinet case made from 6/4 planks. So they could use their beloved mortise and tenon and peg and dowel joinery on every aspect of making.

Now came along the William and Mary period, where the lumber was being milled down to thinner dimensions, and the case work was more delicate and streamlined. Thus the need to create a new joint, the Dovetail.

 

During the period of time (early 1700's) the Dovetail was being used in the more sophisticated shops, the less sophisticated shops had a hard time transitioning into this joint, and staying above water with the finances. The William and Mary design was being requested more and more by affluent customers of the colonies, and with that design came the need for more delicate joinery, such as the dovetail.

This is what separated the provincial shops, from the sophisticated shops, the ability to use new joinery.

 

The less sophisticated shops were still using peg and mortise and tenon for everything, and they were still building the bulky style of "Pilgrim Furniture" of the late 1600's, specifically from 1640 - 1690. But, the Pilgrim Furniture was beautiful as well, so we shouldn't sneeze down on those builders, there were intricate carvings, beautifully raised panels, Jewels and Boss's, Split Spindles, and turned feet. But the William and Mary designs just took the colonies by storm, and the makers either had to transition their shops, or die.

 

In a way you could say, the dovetail joint, was responsible for the demise of many shops, not all makers could adapt!

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9 minutes ago, John Morris said:

It's amazing Dave how they even had the same dilemmas we have today in constructing furniture and the differing levels of workers and what they were capable of doing in the shop.

Are the 1700's one of your favorite periods in American History?

Yes John, primarily from 1750's on particularly the 1770's. I also appreciate the 1850's through the 1870's and specifically 1860-1866 era. My other area of special interest is the 1920's through Prohibition, (Capone, Dillinger and Ness era) then 1938-1946ish. The past couple of years, I've read probably 10-15 books related to WWII era 1939-re-establishment of Israel. Three of my most favorite books have been:

December 1941 - Craig Shirley; Each chapter chronicles one day in December, 1941 from the political, domestic, business in the U.S.A. and happenings in Europe too.

Chronkite's War - Walter Chronkite IV & Maurice Isserman, story as told by Walter Chronkite's grandson compiled from letters the elder sent to his wife during WC's early/war years as a young reporter

Unbroken - Laura Hillenbrand; the life story of Louis Zamperini and specifically his survival as a POW. If you've seen the movie, you have some insight, but the book covers far more in much greater depth.

Sorry for the ramble; I know these books don't relate much to WW'ing, but cover such an important part of our history. Another favorite read some time ago and I've re-read a couple of times, is:

The Greatest Generation - Tom Brokaw; I'm not a big Brokaw fan, but the book is a must read for content.

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Imagine what joinery trends might have evolved had today's adhesives been available. 

Furniture makers and barn and home builders were concerned with structural integrity surely but, efficiency was also utmost. No doubt Kreg systems would have been a boon to many. As would the plethora of power tools.

However, if today's methods and tech had been available, think of all the amazing work we'd have missed. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Gene Howe said:

Imagine what joinery trends might have evolved had today's adhesives been available. 

Furniture makers and barn and home builders were concerned with structural integrity surely but, efficiency was also utmost. No doubt Kreg systems would have been a boon to many. As would the plethora of power tools.

However, if today's methods and tech had been available, think of all the amazing work we'd have missed. 

 

 

Yes siree,,,attention to detail then versus attention to retail now.

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1 minute ago, Grandpadave52 said:

Yes John, primarily from 1750's on particularly the 1770's. I also appreciate the 1850's through the 1870's and specifically 1860-1866 era. My other area of special interest is the 1920's through Prohibition, (Capone, Dillinger and Ness era) then 1938-1946ish. The past couple of years, I've read probably 10-15 books related to WWII era 1939-re-establishment of Israel. Three of my most favorite books have been:

December 1941 - Craig Shirley; Each chapter chronicles one day in December, 1941 from the political, domestic, business in the U.S.A. and happenings in Europe too.

Chronkite's War - Walter Chronkite IV & Maurice Isserman, story as told by Walter Chronkite's grandson compiled from letters the elder sent to his wife during WC's early/war years as a young reporter

Unbroken - Laura Hillenbrand; the life story of Louis Zamperini and specifically his survival as a POW. If you've seen the movie, you have some insight, but the book covers far more in much greater depth.

Sorry for the ramble; I know these books don't relate much to WW'ing, but cover such an important part of our history. Another favorite read some time ago and I've re-read a couple of times, is:

The Greatest Generation - Tom Brokaw; I'm not a big Brokaw fan, but the book is a must read for content.

Rambling? Surely you jest! This is good stuff. Thanks for the run down on your interests, I love this.

All the books you suggested here I have heard of, but never read. I have not seen the Louis Zamperini movie nor read the book, a buddy of mine spoke highly of the book and told me to read it first. He stated the same as you, the book is more involved and detailed. He loved the book too. I must read it, I fee like I am missing something.

I love the WWII era too Dave, we have the coffee table books, and my son and I watch all the movies and the documentaries on History Channel. We watched together Saving Private Ryan a week ago, and we loved The Band of Brothers. Such an incredible time in our history. We are currently trying to track down information on how my uncle lost his life during the invasion of Guam, he was WIA on the beach, and died aboard his ship, and buried at sea. But we are in the process of requesting more information from the archives.

The generation of Americans that built America after WWII, is an awesome group of men and women. Thanks for sharing Dave, appreciate it.

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5 minutes ago, John Morris said:

Rambling? Surely you jest! This is good stuff. Thanks for the run down on your interests, I love this.

All the books you suggested here I have heard of, but never read. I have not seen the Louis Zamperini movie nor read the book, a buddy of mine spoke highly of the book and told me to read it first. He stated the same as you, the book is more involved and detailed. He loved the book too. I must read it, I fee like I am missing something.

I love the WWII era too Dave, we have the coffee table books, and my son and I watch all the movies and the documentaries on History Channel. We watched together Saving Private Ryan a week ago, and we loved The Band of Brothers. Such an incredible time in our history. We are currently trying to track down information on how my uncle lost his life during the invasion of Guam, he was WIA on the beach, and died aboard his ship, and buried at sea. But we are in the process of requesting more information from the archives.

The generation of Americans that built America after WWII, is an awesome group of men and women. Thanks for sharing Dave, appreciate it.

Yes, read the book first...the movie was good...the book was GREAT. I also saw a documentary on Louis Zamperini done just before he passed away...amazing!

Absolutely, went about their work in the same fashion as they sacrificed and served. In many ways "the good old days were truly the good old days."

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