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Need some hints or suggestions on this bowl (finishing)


Charles Nicholls

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Didn't get hardly any shop time in this past weekend because I was feelig too sick again. Feeling a bit better today so I decided to get some time on the lathe and seem to have backed myself into a corner.


Ok, first, this is a bowl that is made from black cherry. I started on it almost a year ago rough turning it and actually lost the durn thing at the bottom of the wood box thanks to my aid being a bit too helpful ;)



Anyway, I finally found it again a few weeks ago. I finished turning it to the thickness desired and am now in the process of trying to sand and finish it. Here's where the problem is. The inside of the bowl has rings around it where the bowl has been sanded. I have sanded it with 80,150,240,320,400,600, Taking a bit extra time with hte 150, because I know you really aren't supposed to skip from 80 all the way to 150, but don't have 100, and no matter what I do, there are still rings even after going through the grits 3 or 4 times now.


ning-000-0001-9364-73.jpg?width=750


Also, there is some grain tear out along the rim that just wont go away either, and I am afraid that I am going to turn it too thin if I try to turn that area or sand it until the tearing is gone, so unless someone has another suggestion. I'll probably turn that part away.


Here's the dilemma, I don't want to turn it away if I don't have to. If I fill it with CA, it may not stick because of the mineral oil and bees wax I have used to finish it. If it does in fact stick, it wont look right unless I do the entire bottom in CA.


Basically I am just looking for ideas that I may not have thought of, and also whether or not you have faced these 2 situations together before, if so how did you fix it. I am very much leaning toward just turning that edge away, trim it down until the tear out is gone.



ning-000-0002-9364-15.jpg?width=750



Thanks for your time




Charles Nicholls
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Maybe some of these ideas will help, in the future. For now, I think I'd start the sanding process over again with 80 grit. You'll probably use up more paper than usual because of the wax and oil but you should be able to salvage the complete turning.


I've had the same problems, too. Here's what I've been doing to help reduce/eliminate those circles. For the inside of the bowl, I purchased one of these systems- mine is the 3" but they come in 2" models, also-ning-142961-9382-96.jpgAlso purchased all the grits from 80 thru 330. This can be mounted on an electric drill.



The other alternative is one of these systems-


ning-819989-9382-10.jpg



I haven't tried this style but I am trying to find the materials (round ball magnet) needed to make a handle and use it with the "Wavey" system.


Both these pictures were lifted from the Woodcraft site.



I really think you should probably get some 100 and 120 grit paper. The jump from 80 to 150 is pretty great and possibly part of the problem.



For the outside of the bowl, I get those same marks if my tools are a little dull. Unfortunately, I usually don't realize that fact until I start sanding. What I have begun doing is sanding with 60 or 80 grit until I have sanded out the "white" areas. May take me awhile! Once I get those removed, I go up thru the grits using the Wavey system when possible, or my hand in the areas that are too detailed for the pad. 


Sometimes, on the outside of a turning, I'll stop the lathe and sand with the grain direction to remove the cross grain scratches that occur from the lathe turning.



Hope this give you some ideas.


Lew




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your rings are there because your running your sandpaper "Across" the grain of the wood.



Notice where the sandpaper was going "With" the grain, there is very little ring showing there.



At this point I would take it off the lathe and use a random orbit or a detail sander and go inside the bowl and sand "with" the grain.



Same with the outside rim of the wood where the grain seems to have a twist in it and is not sanding the same as the rest of the bowl.

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Thanks Lew. You should be able to get the round ball magnets from http://eddiecastelin.com/products_and_services Scroll to the sander option, it's $10 I will do this next month as I am already in the hole this month, I'll have to wait on the sand paper too. Selling just isn't working for me right now lol.




Charles Nicholls
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Hey there Dragon, loong time no see.


I use the sandpaper the same way I have seen every other turner i have watched, with lathe on. THey make no mention of turning the lathe off during any portion of sanding, just sand with lathe on from start to finish.


Of course this doesn't mean that they don't turn it off, off camera and just not say so, but since I have nothing else to go by other than what I see, I had no other way of knowing.


 wouldn't an orbital sander create the same issue. I don't have one anyway but just asking. It's either sand with lathe on or hand sand everything I have no other ways right now.

dragon1 said:


your rings are there because your running your sandpaper "Across" the grain of the wood.



Notice where the sandpaper was going "With" the grain, there is very little ring showing there.



At this point I would take it off the lathe and use a random orbit or a detail sander and go inside the bowl and sand "with" the grain.



Same with the outside rim of the wood where the grain seems to have a twist in it and is not sanding the same as the rest of the bowl.



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Charles,


I sand all my rolling pins with the random orbital sander. At about 180 grit, I turn off the lathe and sand lengthwise along the pin. Those two processes eliminate all scratches. Of course, a bowl is a totally different animal! As Dragon1 pointed out, it's almost impossible to remove all of the scratches using hand sanding and the lathe spinning.

Charles Nicholls said:


Hey there Dragon, loong time no see.


I use the sandpaper the same way I have seen every other turner i have watched, with lathe on. THey make no mention of turning the lathe off during any portion of sanding, just sand with lathe on from start to finish.


Of course this doesn't mean that they don't turn it off, off camera and just not say so, but since I have nothing else to go by other than what I see, I had no other way of knowing.


 wouldn't an orbital sander create the same issue. I don't have one anyway but just asking. It's either sand with lathe on or hand sand everything I have no other ways right now.

dragon1 said:





Charles Nicholls
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Yea, I had a feeling that this was the case. It could just be that bowls are just not meant for me to turn because of my limitations for now at least. Perhaps I should just make flat things for now like cheese boards (round of course) my normal pens and pencils, anything that doesn't have a side to it that would get in the way of proper hand sanding. if I can't sand across it from end to end or edge to edge, then I don't need to be turning it because it will just be an exercise in frustration as this is.

Lewis Kauffman said:


Charles,


I sand all my rolling pins with the random orbital sander. At about 180 grit, I turn off the lathe and sand lengthwise along the pin. Those two processes eliminate all scratches. Of course, a bowl is a totally different animal! As Dragon1 pointed out, it's almost impossible to remove all of the scratches using hand sanding and the lathe spinning.

Charles Nicholls said:





Charles Nicholls
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nicholls61@att.net
Proud supporter of The Wounded Warrior Project, Homes For Our Troops and the NRA

http://www.etsy.com/shop/nichollswoodworks



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Charles,


Thanks for the heads up about the magnets at Capt. Eddy's. You might want to try one of those before you throw in the towel!

Charles Nicholls said:


Yea, I had a feeling that this was the case. It could just be that bowls are just not meant for me to turn because of my limitations for now at least. Perhaps I should just make flat things for now like cheese boards (round of course) my normal pens and pencils, anything that doesn't have a side to it that would get in the way of proper hand sanding. if I can't sand across it from end to end or edge to edge, then I don't need to be turning it because it will just be an exercise in frustration as this is.

Lewis Kauffman said:





Lew Kauffman-
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Yep I will but it will be next month before I can do that.

Lewis Kauffman said:


Charles,


Thanks for the heads up about the magnets at Capt. Eddy's. You might want to try one of those before you throw in the towel!

Charles Nicholls said:





Lew Kauffman-
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Rolling Pin photo crop3_zps88fb0af9.jpg?width=100
Time Traveler and Purveyor of the Universe's Finest Custom Rolling Pins!



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I try to keep my turning tools very sharp, this helps to keep down the time spent sanding. Sometimes you find grain that just will not cut smoothly. Then I start with 60 grit paper backed with a small sponge. After sanding out all the tearout I work up through the grits 80,100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 280, 360 reversing the lathe each change of grit and raising the grain with a wet cloth several times. This always gets the tear out and most of the lines out.

I buy the Klingspor 20 pound variety/scrap packs of sand paper every couple years and always have plenty to choose from, it may not be the best size, but I tear it into thin strips anyway so it doesn't bother me. Great sandpaper and lots of it, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Charles,


I feel your pain, been in the same situation.  A lot of good ideals have been given, I agree that the Sorby bowl sander is the way to go.  Keeping your tool sharp is a must, I invested in Easy Wood Tools, have the hollower's, mid size, and pen size.  I just about do 99% of my turning with them.  They do take some getting used to, but once you do, you don't want to use any thing else.  By using a light touch I have been able to eliminate the gouges in the btm and rings.  If you are worried about the thickness on the btm of the bowl, you might fill the gouges with 2 part apoxy and then sand smooth.  I have done that and it is hardly noticeable.  Hope to get my hands on some black Cherry some day.  Happy Turning, don't give up.


 


Paul

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I have the EWT's also but the finisher and the rougher only. I find myself using the finisher 90% of the time during hollowing etc. It may very will be that the blade on it has dulled to the point that it isn't cutting cleanly enough but it still does cut well, even better than some of my regular tools. I have already rotated it several times as well looking for a spot that may be sharper than the last. I would just buy new blades but can't afford it, so i limp by on what I have.


Sanding in circles is where I am while sanding with the lathe on.


I do notice though that it seems the lines are about the width of the finisher blade


Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try making that tool next month and see how well it works. I am already beyond broke this month or would do it now.





Charles Nicholls
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I for one do not go through all the grits of the sandpaper.  If you are just going through the grits time after time you are wasting paper and time. Also when you do step to the next grit, make sure you have wiped or brushed off the surface before using lighter grit. IMHO  Are you slowing the lathe speed down considerably? Sanding should also be done either by reversing the direction of your lathe or standing on other side of lathe . It isn't mandatory, but I think I get better sanding this way.



Slow RPM down, reverse direction of sanding,  do a thorough job with each grit in sequence.  Wipe off dust and any possible lower grit left overs.


Don't start sanding if you have course turning flaws. Get surface as smooth as possible with turning tools, then sand.


Good luck on your progress.


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Hi Leo, I don't have the ability to reverse the lathe or be on the other side of it. The lowest this lathe will go is approximately 535RPM. I usually try to sand in the same direction then opposite of the way I turn (basically a sweeping motion) while I sit on the same side of the table (I'm wheelchair bound) that I turn from.



Mike, I have the following grits 80 150,240,320,400,600, I don't bother with actual paper I go cloth only. the draw back here is that all but hte 80 are in 1"strips. Great for pens but apparently not much else.


If you'd like to send me some that would be fine and greatly appreciated. PM coming your way.



Thanks all






Charles Nicholls
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Hi Charles. That speed is a good one for sanding. Sorry, I did not realize you are in a wheel chair.   Keep at it my friend it is not automatic. Practice, practice and then practice some more. I have been turning since I was in the 8th grade and that was in 1954 and I still learn things here on the forums and also in my shop and at my turning club. Back then we did not even have lathe chucks.  Every project was glued to another block of wood which was screwed  onto the face plate of the lathe. A piece of notebook paper was in between the two blocks of wood. When project was completed, you split the two pieces of wood apart which in turn split that sheet of paper leaving a very thin shred of paper on both pieces.  I still have three bowls that I made that year. That shop teacher allowed us to make more things, bowls, wall shelves, end table and some I probably have forgotten. I made more in the Jr. High class in La Grande , Oregon than I did in next 4 years of high school shop down here in Phoenix.

Charles Nicholls said:


Hi Leo, I don't have the ability to reverse the lathe or be on the other side of it. The lowest this lathe will go is approximately 535RPM. I usually try to sand in the same direction then opposite of the way I turn (basically a sweeping motion) while I sit on the same side of the table (I'm wheelchair bound) that I turn from.



Mike, I have the following grits 80 150,240,320,400,600, I don't bother with actual paper I go cloth only. the draw back here is that all but hte 80 are in 1"strips. Great for pens but apparently not much else.


If you'd like to send me some that would be fine and greatly appreciated. PM coming your way.



Thanks all






Charles Nicholls
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nicholls61@att.net
Proud supporter of The Wounded Warrior Project, Homes For Our Troops and the NRA

http://www.etsy.com/shop/nichollswoodworks




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No worries Leo, it limits my mobility a bit but not much when it comes to wood turning. I would like to slow the speed down even more but am not able to without changing out the motor and adding pulley's I'd love to do it though so I can slow it all the way to 1 if i had to LOL. Oh well we have to live with what we can get :)



Mike: I sent a friend request a while ago, I can't send you a PM until you accept the friend request. Its TPW's way of preventing spam :)

Leo Pedersen said:


Hi Charles. That speed is a good one for sanding. Sorry, I did not realize you are in a wheel chair.   Keep at it my friend it is not automatic. Practice, practice and then practice some more. I have been turning since I was in the 8th grade and that was in 1954 and I still learn things here on the forums and also in my shop and at my turning club. Back then we did not even have lathe chucks.  Every project was glued to another block of wood which was screwed  onto the face plate of the lathe. A piece of notebook paper was in between the two blocks of wood. When project was completed, you split the two pieces of wood apart which in turn split that sheet of paper leaving a very thin shred of paper on both pieces.  I still have three bowls that I made that year. That shop teacher allowed us to make more things, bowls, wall shelves, end table and some I probably have forgotten. I made more in the Jr. High class in La Grande , Oregon than I did in next 4 years of high school shop down here in Phoenix.

Charles Nicholls said:



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