Ron Altier Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I am just like 99% of woodworkers and don't use a saw guard on my table saw. The biggest reason is that mine is a real pain to remove and remount. It can take 5 minutes to get it right. I had never had a serious kickback until last week. I was crosscutting a short piece of pine without the guard and was pushing with my head and body away from the line of the saw blade. The small cut off piece became wedged against the saw in a split second and flew across my garage like fast ball. I almost always have my zero clearance throat plate on, but this time I didn't and the opening next to the blade was at least a half inch. That was the cause and being used to zero clearance, I wasn't as cautious as I should have been. It caused no damage or injury, but was a real eye opener and will cause me to be much more safety conscience from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Brink Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 It sounds like you got away with it...this time. I've caught myself starting to do something stupid and have to start over or rethink it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wisecarver Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Back in the 70's, during High School, we had to watch the Saw kickback video several times.That being said, I have always kept out of the aim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Glad you weren't hurt! I have a scar on my shoulder from the same set of circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Dudelston Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Your luck is at a high. Go buy a lottery ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I don't use any safety gizmoes outside of those rare instances when I know I'm going to need 'em. One such is when I'm ripping a lot of unreliable wood - or rather wood that is reliably going to clamp up on the blade. Then an only then do I put the riving knife on. The rest of the time I use some really basic lifestyle ways of being around machinery that I've learned over the past 50 or so years running machinery of all sorts from woodworking to giant engine lathes with 4 foot diameter face-plates and snarly fixtures sticking out from the radius 4 foot chuck diameter blanchard grinders, millers of all stripes and sizes and machinery with the power from belts dropping from the ceiling. As it regards kickback. I do a few things: First, I am never in the line of fire. I just don't stand where the lumber might go. Basic rule of the Karate Kid's teacher Mister Miaga "Not be there when blow lands." Second, I defeat the physics of the kickback by constant technique. I apply downward force on the work.That's it really. To kick back, the work needs to pick up ever so little and then it all happens very suddenly. The work can pick up on the lead into the blade or on the rear of the blade. It hardly matters, but for the force delta. Front blade kicks are usually way less forceful. Both need to get the work off the table in order to happen. Even when the work squeezes shut on the blade, it has to pick it up to throw it at you. Otherwise the blade just burns and I just shove it harder through the cut. If I know or suspect beforehand that it's going to clamp on the blade, I take a trick from old school sawyers running the crudest of old time mills. I drop little wood wedges in the kerf on the lee of the blade and it can't close up. As for my pinkies very often coming within mere fractions of the blade in passes: I lean. My direction of lean is away from the blade so that if things get out of hand ( & when it happens, it happens way too fast for reactions to save you) my energy is going away from the blade. I'm falling to safety. But since I got my slider a lot of the usual risks and hazards are in the past. I can mount work in a fixture that will hold even the oddest shaped pieces securely with no need for me to do anything but shove the sliding table through the cut and remove the work after the pass is done. My hands are just not part of the picture during the cut. I came up without all the doodads and gizmos that people often think of as mandatory and too often become very angry when I say that they are just in the stinkin' bleedin' way and can't stand 'em. They accuse me of trying to kill people or some other hysterical tom foolery. I figure If I can get along without all the safety crapola, then any one else can too, if they wish to. Ya just gotta use yer noodle. But, still, my hat's off to any one who can manage to live with the safety gizmos - I don't know how they do it, but c'est la vie and god bless 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Nicholls Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I have always preferred band saws over table saws and this is why, I guess it's a matter of preference really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Since I got mine, I like to do rips on the BS too. When making lots of thin rips on the BS I joint the wood on two sides take two cuts and joint it again then do it all over again and again.. I cut it a scosh oversize and then it's off to the planer for precision thicknessing and to clean the BS cut side. While sawing 10 and 14" or so cants I've had the wood clamp on the blade so tight that it stops the saw and I gotta drive wedges into the kerf to open it up to restart the cut. Takes a real thick hunk o' lumbah to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Nicholls Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Indeed it does, I have never had that trouble myself although I have had several blades break because they bound up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morris Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Overarm Blade Guards The old excuse that the guard gets in ones way, is no longer valid, as there are alternatives. I don't care how experienced one is, or how long you have gone without accident, it's not a matter of if, but when. It will happen folks. The only hold back from purchasing an overarm guard should be cost, not laziness. Please consider an over arm, they are never in your way, if you have to cut something big, just slide it out of the way, simple as that. There are a range of guards available, low cost to high cost, but the lowest cost one is better then none at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 It's not an excuse. The safety gizmos are all in the way and I truly don't need them. It's just a waste of effort and money for folks like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Jenkins Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 "May you live long and prosper."Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 "May you live long and prosper." And may your cup always run over and the sun always warm your back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morris Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Here is another great archived topic that we brought up to our live forum, this is always a great discussion with plenty of views, all valid and a great read. Thanks for this topic Ron Altier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yah I too don't go for any of the safety gizmos. As a general proposition, I don't use a riving knife don't use a guard etc. I rely on habitual safe practices and common sense. I would put a knife on the saw if I'm going to do a lot of ripping of active lumber but since I got a band saw; that's where I do my ling rips in active lumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Wilson Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 After having two pieces of plywood get a little crooked and kick back into my gut and send ME flying backward, I ALWAYS put the guard in when cutting anything bigger than a foot (should have said 12 inches for the jokesters around here). I would rather spend that time than nurse nasty looking discolorations on my chest and/or belly. (It's funny that since the open heart I have gotten a little more conscious of those type things.) John Morris and HARO50 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hamblen Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Wow……over 67,000 people are medically treated for table saw injuries every year!!! Conventional table saws are dangerous………period. One can tinker with safety devices and make something to solve one problem or something else to solve another problem. With all these safety devices it makes the saw almost impossible to use…….. so what do people do…….get rid of the safety devices. At the end of the day it is not the fault of the table saw that caused an injury but quite likely a bad decision of the operator. In my opinion there are two leading causes that lead to the majority of injuries: Inexperience Complacency Inexperience is self-explanatory but complacency comes with experience and confidence. All of these safety devices are no good if they are not used. I have to admit, I have removed safety devices from my table saw, in particular the blade guard with the anti-kickback. It was always cumbersome to use, caused the wood to bind and just plain never did work right. One day the blade guard would not lift to allow the wood to go underneath so I reached over to lift the guard up a bit. As I did that it suddenly lifted and the wood hit the blade. After the guard was ripped of the mount and it, along with the wood hit the back wall………thank god I was standing aside. Upon inspection I was horrified when I saw plastic guard slivers stuck in the gyprock……..that could have just as easily been me!!! The Saw Stop may stop the blade if a finger comes close to the blade but will it stop kick back? Kickback is another leading cause of serious injury that could arguably be even more dangerous. If I had to choose, I think I would rather lose a finger than lose an eye as a result of a piece of wood that splintered and came flying back at horrendous speed due to kick back. And yes……don’t be fooled……..a lot of safety devices may only give you a false sense of security which may lead to an even greater possibility of injury. The last straw!!!! I consider myself a very safety conscious person around power equipment and I was never comfortable using my full size table saw without a blade guard so I purchased a new one and installed it. All was fine until one day I was squaring a piece of 2” x 4”. What could possibly go wrong? I had all the safety parts installed and I was using a cross cut sled. Well that 2” cut off piece from the 2” x 4” decided to hit the back of the blade and came screaming back and hit me just above the eye. So much for the blade guard and anti-kickback!!! It felt like I was just hit by a 20pound weight traveling at the speed of light. There was blood everywhere as it made a really good gash in my forehead just above my eye. After four stiches at the hospital the doctor said if that projectile had hit just ½” lower I would definitely be blinded in that one eye. I am reminded of it every day when I look in the mirror and see the scar. Sometimes accidents just happen but it was also a wakeup call for me. As a designer, I said there has to be a better way so I set out to design a new machine to replace the table saw with something that would not only work better than a table saw but would also dramatically reduce the possibility of injury. If you would like to see the machine I designed you can see it at https://youtu.be/8JBhE9palOk I think a lot of people agree it is a great solution because we have sold hundreds of them. Roger HARO50 and John Morris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Worsham Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 For ripping I have used a snap in splitter/prawls for years on my Jet Contractor saw with great results. I don't think they still make this device anymore, but mine has served me very well over the past 14-15 years. John Morris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtland Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 On 1/21/2016 at 9:03 AM, Roger Hamblen said: Wow……over 67,000 people are medically treated for table saw injuries every year!!! Great to see ya around here Roger! We've missed ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtland Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 22 hours ago, Allen Worsham said: For ripping I have used a snap in splitter/prawls for years on my Jet Contractor saw with great results. I don't think they still make this device anymore, but mine has served me very well over the past 14-15 years. Those pawls are great Allen. Such a simple concept yet very effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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