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Gene Howe

A wonderful WW experience

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1 hour ago, It Was Al B said:

 In todays' world, working with your hands has become less inspiring. People would rather sit behind a desk, or go out in the field with a clip board, where salaries are higher. It is harder to make a living as a craftsman, and the number of skilled craftsmen in this country within all of the trades is in serious decline. I believe we are just beginning to experience the results. Unfortunately with woodworking, cheap imports that can "serve the purpose" are putting our craftsmen out of business. Those who can afford true craftsmanship will continue to pay the price for quality, but most people are looking for the lowest cost.

 

It's nice to see someone else that is also honest enough to admit how things really are. 

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There is certainly a decline in the number of workers entering the trades.   Read a magazine article several months back with contributions from Mike Rowe and Norm Abrahm about this very subject and the challenges of getting the next generation of skilled workers in place.   They called out the looming shortage as the average age of trade workers nears retirement.   Woodworking is only a hobby for me.   I drive a desk each day and am years from retirement, but money was not the deciding factor in my career choice.   I love what I do and would do the same if I had to do it over again.  I do wonder if the technology classes no longer being in schools plays a part.   

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4 hours ago, Wil said:

 I do wonder if the technology classes no longer being in schools plays a part.   

IMHO Wil I believe you are spot on with this observation. For far too long, Educators began painting all HS kids with the same broad brush...you need a 4 year degree to be successful and competitive. Understanding in part their philosophy, however their error is practical common sense is not every HS kid is cut out a conventional college campus.

 

The last 10-12 years of my professional career I "drove a desk (love that analogy:)) as well. The majority of it was recruiting, interviewing & hiring (both at the H.S. and Community College level) kids to enter manufacturing. I soon learned those kids were ill prepared in many areas; math, basic PC, problem solving, Inter-personal and decision making skills not to mention any type of technical knowledge. I also did New Hire Orientations, then spent another 40-80 to hours in the classroom with them just to teach the basics. Most were like sponges embracing the opportunity to learn something they felt would help them in a career. Many developed a passion for learning and took advantage of many of our in house elective classes and some went a step further using our tuition reimbursement program to continue their educations toward 2 and 4 year degrees.

 

On the other side of the coin, I worked directly with local Community Colleges and a few of our state University's to develop or adapt curriculum needed to for our needs. We partnered with other area manufacturers to develop several apprenticeship programs for skilled trades such as electricians, machine repair, industrial maintenance, utilities as well as Quality, Machining (including CNC Operators & Programmers) and Advanced Assembly Techniques. Working through the State of Indiana (and some other states as well) I obtained local, state and even some Federal grants to off-set the costs. I spent A LOT of time tracking people, $$$'s, progress, etc. "driving my desk." to keep all the plates spinning, but we had some great success stories.

 

I wish I could say it was all perfect, but far from it. Cyclical business climates interrupted the process that led to re-creating the wheel over and over. Some individuals chose to blow the opportunities given them requiring a re-evaluation  of the entry and selection process.

 

Off my soap box now, but it does grind my gears when I hear "the trades are dead or dying." There is NO APP to frame, wire, plumb, roof, lay blocks/concrete work for a house; there is NO APP to repair your car, truck boat, airplane, lawn-mower or snowblower; there is NO APP to operate heavy machinery to build or repair infra-structure; there is NO APP for Hand crafted anything. Certainly there are APPs and technological advances which have changed the landscape and methodology for climbing the tree, but man has and always will use his hands along with his mind to create and build.

 

OK, I'm think I'm done:D. Time to go take a TIDE pod now!:rolleyes: 

Edited by Grandpadave52

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Locally, our vocational high school has more students trying to get enrolled than the school can handle. The school recently met with several business leaders concerning the need for skilled tradesmen.. The school in now opening full time evening classes for adults, to teach the skills needed for anyone who wishes to take the opportunity . I believe, with the shortage of skilled tradesmen, you may see a move to provide better wages for those skilled in the trades.  Many of the graduates from the trade school  have entered 2 or 4 year college programs, and now operate their own small businesses.  They are hiring trade school graduates because they know the schools' reputation. 

The school has a problem where some parents accuse the school of selective enrollment, based on academic achievement. The school probably has the highest % of students who do graduate, compare to other schools, and has something like 65% of their graduate who do continue on to college. I believe their success is due to what the school does to motivate the students.

Edited by It Was Al B

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15 minutes ago, It Was Al B said:

Locally, our vocational high school has more students trying to get enrolled than the school can handle. The school recently met with several business leaders concerning the need for skilled tradesmen.. The school in now opening full time evening classes for adults, to teach the skills needed for anyone who wishes to take the opportunity . I believe, with the shortage of skilled tradesmen, you may see a move to provide better wages for those skilled in the trades.  I see many of the graduates from the trade school who have entered 2 or 4 year college programs, and now operate their own small businesses.  They are hiring trade school graduates because they know the schools' reputation. 

The school has a problem where some parents accuse the school of selective enrollment, based on academic achievement. The school probably has the highest % of students who do graduate, compare to other schools, and has something like 65% of their graduate who do continue on to college. I believe their success is due to what the school does to motivate the students.

I'm sure that some C and D students might do well, even excel in a good vocational program. But, shouldn't the school be able to set the criteria for entrance? Especially since they appear to have plenty of applicants. It's just too bad that some students won't get the opportunity. OTOH, that might be motivation for those C and D students to buckle down.  Then there's the evening classes, if they are truly serious.

Edited by Gene Howe

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Gene - agree with you on the school setting an entrance criteria.   But how long do you think it would take for someone to challenge it due to their feeling that they were "wronged".   Not sure what happened to best man (or woman) for the job.

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25 minutes ago, Wil said:

Not sure what happened to best man (or woman) for the job.

That's not the way to pick someone for the job.  It creates a hostile environment.  Fair is fair, everyone deserves a chance.  Participation is key here.

 

rolling-eyes-clipart-rolling-eyes-clipart-images-smileys-on-pinterest-emoticon-smileys-and-smiley-faces-576-x-440.jpg.30334ad551050d4aa4f80c580286c566.jpg

 

Our local government thinks it is best to remove the following question from job applications.

 

Have you ever been convicted of a felony?           

How can children be raised to be good citizens if they don't need to be?

 

 

 

 

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On 1/12/2018 at 4:17 PM, p_toad said:

the guy in A Bucket of Blood (1959)

One of my favorites- especially the cat!

 

I've made "bird house" kits for the little ones next door. They are still too young to be around power tools but they can use hand tools. If I'm working outside, they usually show up and I give them "safe" tasks to "help" me. The youngest girl is really quick to pick up on stuff and very mechanically inclined.

 

As for sharing techniques, heck, someone helped me- I pay it forward. Search for "Celtic Knot" rolling pins and see how many you find. You're welcome. 

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3 hours ago, Gene Howe said:

I'm sure that some C and D students might do well, even excel in a good vocational program. But, shouldn't the school be able to set the criteria for entrance? Especially since they appear to have plenty of applicants. It's just too bad that some students won't get the opportunity. OTOH, that might be motivation for those C and D students to buckle down.  Then there's the evening classes, if they are truly serious.

Some parents feel that C and D students should have priority with entrance into the vocational school. I believe the school policy is to allow enrollment based on the same scale of student grade averages enrolled in the local conventional high schools.

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Our county runs a good  2 yr. vocational program here. A prospective student must have maintained a C Average with no failed classes for the previous 2 years. They must also have a clean disciplinary record and no criminal record. Since they are juvies, I don't know how that's determined. I don't know the percentages but, a good number of the graduates are employed immediately after graduation. Many go on to earn higher degrees. 

 

 

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Spot on Lew! I chose a technical path and education (Automotive & Diesel Mechanics) when I graduated from HS. It nearly infuriated my Guidance Counselor, Principle and a couple of my "Academic Advisers".  That was in 1970-71. While I could succeed in the academic classroom, it wasn't my love or passion. I loved getting my hands dirty. The skills and knowledge I gained during my "first career" got me in the door for my second career.

 

By then I had a more mature understanding of the value of academic learning combined trade skills knowledge and just plain old hard work ethic. I was fortunate within the company I worked for to gain the mentor-ship of some senior managers and if I demonstrated a desire to learn both hands-on and in the classroom they would provide a path and assistance. During the many years "driving a desk" (forgive me @Wil, for stealing your term:P), I was still the happiest when I was working with my hands & mind. I've truly enjoyed being in the classroom and that special moment when you would see someone with that "a ha!" moment, but the satisfaction that comes with fixing,  building, creating something from your own hands...man that's the best high out there...

 

OK time to garner some beauty rest...not nearly enough hours in the day or night for that to work:lol:

18 minutes ago, lew said:

As GrandpaDave said- putting my soapbox away.

I've found taking two of these helps...:P

image.png.93c8f09eac719f6a246b403369d60750.png

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30 minutes ago, Grandpadave52 said:

I've found taking two of these helps...:P

image.png.93c8f09eac719f6a246b403369d60750.png

But so do the kids these days.:wacko::o

 

https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Tide+Pod+Challenge&qpvt=tide+pod+challenge&FORM=EWRE

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by HandyDan

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