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So I am practicing handcut dove tails. I am up to cut 12, still a few minor things im not happy with but my OCD wont be happy till there are no mistakes!!

Below is attempt 12

 

So my issues here were the knife wall for the middle pin was compressed, you could see from the inside.

The finish on the proud parts of the joint was rough.

 

I find that when chiselling out the waste my chisel doesn't seem to cut very well on chop cuts. I literally sharpened them before I started the joint as well!!

Maybe I am being a bit too aggressive, or could it just be that pine compresses more easily?

 

Hopefully 13 will be my lucky One!!

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Edited by Ron Dudelston
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Those are looking really good! Your assumptions are correct, it's the pine, the pine is compressing on you and the chopping is going to do just that. I am not very efficient at DT's myself, but I have used pine as practice pieces because it is cheap, and usually just laying around, and I have experienced exactly what you are experiencing with the bad results in pine. Once you get a piece of cherry or walnut in your cross hairs, it's going to feel completely different, and everything will clean up real nice.

Great practicing there!

By the way, a block plane will do wonders to cleaning those up, your joints are pretty tight, very good practice work I'd say!

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yes they are looking good...

but... by the looks of the drops you have more of an uneven/forced tearing action then a cutting or shearing action...

look to using the right saw w/ the right set w/ the right tooth grind..
there are cross cut saws and there are rip saws, for a reason...

A cross cut saw is used to cut across the grain of the wood and are sharpened like knife points to score then shear the fibers of the wood....
A rip or splitting saw is used to cut with the grain and are sharpened like chisel points (or little tiny plow plane blades) to excavate the wood from the groove.....
consider adding a Ryoba saw (one side rip, one side cross cut) to your arsenal.
https://www.fine-tools.com/ryoba.html

 

pine is a great place to start and practice DT'ing... and then comes the brittle hardwoods???
Next week you'll be looking to get into Japanese joinery...
A picture(s) speaks more than a thousand words:....


iNYAZ.png.676e210254cd3fa6e1ce3bb6eb4f4e1c.png

 

YxQMq.png.ca9a475c6dc20d4849dc4f3f4d01cea5.png

 

HS-21-1.jpg.b902e0c2c19ab01cc3d6f5c60e8dc4cf.jpgHS-21-2.jpg.c5db1cdcaa04700b7d5bff6f674b3268.jpgHS-21-3.jpg.fc9f68d1a8817fa04a2be554f7ca1441.jpg

Edited by Stick486

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20171206_092717.jpg.7350d5c881dcb6fd78a5c0d8bbad9a85.jpg.547945809874c7a7f319eeffd96540d0.jpg20171206_092723.jpg.b4083516f235d77839a468bf6c4ba349.jpg.d676ae1c9a60669edf362c99c6cb0ca8.jpg

 

this looks to be a gouging and more tearing...

if you are using a plane is it a LA (Low Angle) plane???... An LA plane would the better plane to use over a conventional...

sweep the cutting action here and not straight on...

if you are using a chisel let the body of the chisel lay flat on your stock w/ the bevel up while using sweeping cutting/shearing action...

w/ both tools, less is more... look to getting really really fine/thin shavings instead of hogging away the material...

 

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5a297586c2d9e_laidout.JPG.cd0bd086e5b1b7cca24286c6c0b8ab90.JPG

Laid out, A backsaw, filed as a rip, cuts on the waste side of the lines...leaving the lines ( I do pins first.....meh)

5a2975fcf0002_chop1.JPG.dd05b91d55acc80a0bf77c09bb477db8.JPG

I chop halfway down, leaving a tab for support..

5a2976390b9d1_chop2.JPG.3fd16619a0269d5ecdc0d94aa72d00bd.JPG

Flip the board over, and complete the chop....

5a297667cec23_chisels3.JPG.ec1d1722e2ee89139ab24cb0ad31ffc7.JPG

Chisels I use..

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I can then stand the pin board up, where I can see, I use a sharp pencil, to mark around each pin.    Then I saw on the waste side, leaving the lines..and chop out the waste.

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Tails started..

chopped.jpg.b1ccd923cbdddac217e8472f9d9edbef.jpg

Side one, tails chopped, flip over, and complete the chops..test fit?

5a297842c8063_dryfit.jpg.e142a0fc8511b6e21542f50d24f9d38b.jpg

Gaps are from getting in a hurry, and not leaving the lines. 

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Left more of the lines, on this one....

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The more I do..the better they get....

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Good progress, Lee. Three challenges are; you're dealing with soft wood, tear-outs are much more likely then with hardwoods, as Stick posted pay attention to the type of saw that you are using, and make sure that you address the lines on the correct sides, AND sharp chisels. Most people don't get their chisels and/or plane irons truly sharp. If you look at a chisel and you start bleeding someplace then it is probably sharp, if not keep at it until you get the knack for it. If the chisel is not TRULY sharp, it will hang up, gouge, and "blow-out" the wood instead of cutting it.

 

Sharpening is an extensive subject with many methods and schools of thought. It is essential to any hand tool operations, using chisels, planes, and even power tools. You have to learn to sharpen...it is an essential skill.

 

If you haven't watch any of his videos, find Paul Sellers. His videos are excellent and will address sharpening, dovetailing, etc. in depth.

 

Keep at it. Practice, practice, practice is the name of the game.

Edited by schnewj

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Tons of really useful tips and advice, Thanks!!

I have been trying the Paul sellers sharpening method but I need a 1200 or higher diamond stone. I've got an oil stone with 2 grits and have been using that and finishing with 1000, 1500 and the 2000 grit wet and dry sandpaper. Then i use a buffing compound 5000 grit I think followed by a leather strop.

They still don't seem to cut paper tho, dunno why.

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Make sure your bevels are correct and consistent. Doesn't really matter what they are as long as they are in the middle 20° range. Make sure your backs are flat, but most of all watch when you are stropping, Don't lift up off of the bevel. it will round over and dull the tip. All of that sharpening is useless if you strop off the sharp edge and round it over.

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Ah I did not know that!! I'll be super careful shame I just sharpened the 2 chisels I use and the block plane:) I'm trying a wider board and some pitch pine. Hoping for success with effort 13!

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1 hour ago, eazygeezer said:

Tons of really useful tips and advice, Thanks!!

I have been trying the Paul sellers sharpening method but I need a 1200 or higher diamond stone. I've got an oil stone with 2 grits and have been using that and finishing with 1000, 1500 and the 2000 grit wet and dry sandpaper. Then i use a buffing compound 5000 grit I think followed by a leather strop.

They still don't seem to cut paper tho, dunno why.

FEW MONTHS BAK I ASK BOUT DT, WAS HOPING A ''SITE'' WOULD MATERIALIZE HERE, CAUSE SO MANY OV'US  R INTERESTED IN THE WHAT & WHY'S + OUR EXPERIENCES WITH ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT  TASKS IN WWing. Cya

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54 minutes ago, eazygeezer said:

Ah I did not know that!! I'll be super careful shame I just sharpened the 2 chisels I use and the block plane:) I'm trying a wider board and some pitch pine. Hoping for success with effort 13!

These may help...take the time to read them and it will answer a ton of questions and a bunch of information for you...

Chisel Geometry-ne.pdf

Plane-Blade Geometry.pdf

SharpeningPlaneIronsandChisels.pdf

Theory on Sharpening Angles for Knives.pdf

tool_geometry.pdf

Guide to Chisels.pdf

 

These are courtesy of the SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and its branch Tool Storage Bait and Tackle.

 

Just some light reading as you go and when you digest this we'll see what else we can help you with.

Edited by schnewj

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4 hours ago, eazygeezer said:

They still don't seem to cut paper tho, dunno why.

 

WTB because of angle control you are actually blunting your tooling...

describe in detail how you are sharpening/stropping...

Here's the gold standard for angle/honing control...

 

studying your waste and all the tears/splinters/breaks...

sharper is in order...

let the tools do the work...

learn finesse..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Stick486

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4 hours ago, eazygeezer said:

finishing with 1000, 1500 and the 2000 grit wet and dry sandpaper.

 

I trust that you have that paper on some serious lat glass or granite....

what are you doing for angle control???...

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Don't forget @eazygeezer You can get up and running sharpening free hand, for little investment.

KISS method, here is neat little topic I posted awhile back:

 

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While I am sitting at the bench, chopping the waste.....each time I pick up a chisel, I will "strop" it a few times....on the leg of my jeans.   Just a few swipes on the bevel, the back, and one or two on the bevel again.     Try it sometime......

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Not being really good at holding a consistent angle, I use the Veritas MkII guide. There are many such guides on the market. And, there are quite a few YouTube videos showing how to make your own. Search YouTube for "honing guide". And, be sure to make a few circular swipes on back, to remove the burr. Use the fine stone, and just do the inch or less at the end.

As to stropping, I use a piece of leather charged with the green chrome oxide stick. But, after the a few minutes of use, that fine edge is gone. Unless I'm doing some fine paring, I don't bother stropping between maintenance sharpenings. Maybe I should do as Steve suggests. Denim jeans would work.

Edited by Gene Howe

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The Veritas MkII is an indispensable member of my sharpening family. Most people bulk at the initial price but it is a highly accurate, simple to use, LIFETIME tool.

 

I have tried just about every method of sharpening available. I've settled on a WorkSharp 3000 for restoring bevel angles and repairing chipped edges. Flattening backs are a breeze and a homemade MDF disc with leather face makes a decent strop. I am doing most of the final/touch-up  work on 8" x 3" DMT diamond plates now. I still use my water stones occasionally but hate the mess. I, also, have some very expensive Arkansas stones that are beautiful to use.

 

The DMT's remain flat and have an infinitely longer life span than my quality waterstones. Price wise they are more cost effective than quality waterstones in the long term, and much less messy.

 

Ideally, a Tormec T-8 would be the way to go, especially, if I were sharpening turning tools. However, at ~$800-1000 USD it is just not cost effective for what I am doing lately.

 

This all isn't intended to push one method over another. Everyone has their own methods. This is just what I have found works for me.

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When sawing,  I do use a "guide" of sorts, to keep the saw moving where I want it.

 

Left thumbnail is right beside the line, saw even rubs against it......and the knuckle act as the angle guide for vertical.   There is even a bump in the knuckle...worn there at the angle I use.    Takes a while.   

 

I use the thumb guide until the saw gets at least halfway into the depth of the cut.....then the kerf becomes the guide. 

 

Handsawing tails:  Again the knuckle guide.    I lean the thumbnail back to match the angle needed.    Cut all the lines leaning towards the thumb....turn the board around, and do the others, using the same lean of the thumb.    Just have to follow the lines.......

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