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Dust collection pipe question.....

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All - Good afternoon.  I'm in the process of building a new shop.  Floor is in, framing is done and roof is on.  Before the floor was poured, we put 6" green plastic sewer type pipe under the slab and ran from where the collector will go to each wall of the shop and two drops in the middle of the shop.  I went back and forth on whether to use plastic or metal, but ended up with plastic since it's buried and this pipe is designed to be placed below grade.  Here is my question.   It does not appear as though the metal 6" HVAC duct work will connect to this 6" plastic sewer pipe (may be able to force it, but not quite the right size).  Besides just going with all PVC above the floor and to the machines, is there a better way?  Some form of "conversion" pipe that can be used to convert from the plastic to metal?  And yes, the plastic pipe will be grounded from the tools to the collector frame.   I'm sure others have come across this issue and have figured it out, I'm just not finding an off the shelf solution.   Any help or insight would be appreciated from those smarter than me.  

 

Signed, Stumped in MO. 

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Well, no...there isn't anything off the shelf that does exactly what you want (that I'm aware of). The 6" snap lock will work without forcing it, but you need a pair of what's called "crimping pliers" (and maybe a lot of patience).  You will wind up with some of the connections being backward to the air flow...but what the hey, it won't make that much difference. Now if the PVC wasn't buried in concrete there would be other options (like heating it with a heat gun to expand or shrink the end), but what you want to do can be made to work. BTW, don't waste time/money trying to ground the PVC.

Edited by Fred W. Hargis Jr

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Since you said the PVS is green, I am assuming that it is PVC 3034, SDR 35? IF that is the case, you can change over to D2729 PVC pipe for the stuff above the floor. They make adaptors that will go from 3034 to the D2729. I have D2729 in my shop and that stuff matches up with dust ports on my machines, blast gates, and other "regular" dust collection fittings.

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Chips - The pipe buried under the slab is an ASTM D3034 PVC Sewer pipe so it appears to be what you noted.  Is the 2729 pipe the white 6 inch pipe at the big box stores?  When you piped yours, was there a need to use metal pipe at all or did you just run plastic up to where a flex pipe could connect to a machine (if you could not use rigid plastic for the full run).

 

Fred - If I opted to use 6" metal pipe, would I still need to crimp if it comes crimped already?  Or would the additional crimping make the pipe a bit smaller?  I have checked and a crimped section of 6 inch metal will ALMOST fit inside of the green plastic, but it's really tight and does not seat very well.  I had thought of cutting a slot or two in the crimp area to see it that would narrow it down enough to improve the fit. 

 

I'm looking for more info on the rubber type adapters Lew mentioned, just not sure how that would work.  I think the pipes would be joined, but wonder if the edges of the pipe being connected would snag chips headed for the collector (that green pipe is fairly thick walled).  

 

Great info.  Thanks so much for all of your guidance.  It's very much appreciated.

 

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I used all plastic pipe, no grounding. The 2729 pipe is also called thin wall and dwv pipe.

The fernco connectors are standard for coonecting pipes for repairs and for connecting 2 different types of pipe (pvc to clay; pvc to ads; pvc to pvc). Since they are used in sewer as well as storm applications, I do not think you will have a.problem with the ends of the pipe and debris

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The pliers are for when you need a crimp when there isn't one....otherwise the factory crimps will do. Also, It sounds like you may be considering PVC (I didn't think that was an option from your first post). That would definitely make things easier. Like Kelly said, stay with the 2729 (easy to spot, it's printer right on the side) and the fittings will fit the 2729 and the 3034 you already used. I have those mixed on my own system, the stores around me don't generally stock the 2729 and it's a little hard to find. Menard's does stock the 3034. One other thing, don't forget to check the Habitat store if you have one nearby. I just picked up 3 damaged 10'x 6" 2729 sticks for $15.

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OK,  so I am  not sure I understand what you are trying to do.  I understand the need for 6 inch PVC under the concrete, but why do you need 6 inch above ground?  It would seem to me that 4 inch to each machine would be adequate. Of course if you feel that you need it it is up to you. I have 4 inch in my shop and don't really have any problems.  The key is to not make 90 degree corners.  A couple of  45's with a short section between is better.  Also be sure to add clean outs at any change in direction.  Just remember as you increase diameter you reduce velocity, too large a pipe will give the chips a place to settle.  I did my system a number of years ago when installing grounds was imperative.  I installed #12 bare copper wire inside the PVC piping only to find that the stringy chips would get caught on the wire an cause some blocking.  It was not a good idea.  I also used flexible 4 inch hose to each machine.  Any place I needed an adapter or reducer I used 3/4 inch plywood to make the transition.  I also made my own blast gates with 3/4 inch plywood, PVC and 1/4 inch Masonite. 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Paul

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Paul, use 6" all the way to the machines,then treduces to 4" if you want. If you run 4" it will greatly reduduce your air flow. I run 6' to my tablesaws and RAS and reduce to 4" at the other machines. If you reduce smaller than 4" say to a belt/disc sander put a wye in to open one side of the wye while you reduce the other to 2 1/2", the open side gives you makeup air so that the dust doesn't settle out before the dust bin.

Herb

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Dadio, I have a question.  If you reduce from 6 to 4 anywhere along the way haven't you reduced your air flow?  If you start at the machine with 4 inch then the most you can expect to draw is what can be pulled through the 4 inch, right.  If you were working with pressure (from a compressor) then you would have reserve capacity to keep a continuous flow but you will still only get X for volume although velocity will increase at the discharge but not in the line.  I don't know if I am explaining myself well and I am not an engineer, but my logic (right or wrong) tells me that a 6 line wold only be useful if you are running more then one machine at a time and would probably be more efficient if you did.  Please straighten me out if my thinking wrong.  

 

Now I am not saying that dust will settle out but I think it increases the potential for problems.  When planing pine the stringy chips can bunch up and create a blockage if the air movement is not great enough.  This is just my opinion and I may be wrong

 

Thanks,

Paul

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Paul,

Everything I have read about dust collection is stay big as long as you can then reduce only when you have to. I am not an expert on duct collection, but that is what I have read.

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1 hour ago, Fastback said:

Dadio, I have a question.  If you reduce from 6 to 4 anywhere along the way haven't you reduced your air flow?  If you start at the machine with 4 inch then the most you can expect to draw is what can be pulled through the 4 inch, right.  If you were working with pressure (from a compressor) then you would have reserve capacity to keep a continuous flow but you will still only get X for volume although velocity will increase at the discharge but not in the line.  I don't know if I am explaining myself well and I am not an engineer, but my logic (right or wrong) tells me that a 6 line wold only be useful if you are running more then one machine at a time and would probably be more efficient if you did.  Please straighten me out if my thinking wrong.  

 

Now I am not saying that dust will settle out but I think it increases the potential for problems.  When planing pine the stringy chips can bunch up and create a blockage if the air movement is not great enough.  This is just my opinion and I may be wrong

 

Thanks,

Paul

I am no expert on dust Collection, Here is a web site from the recognized authority on Dust Collection and also a member of this forum Bill Pentz. that will clear up any and all concerns about Dust Collection.

 

Herb

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

Edited by Dadio

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Keep the discussion going guys...reading and learning a lot. Thanks!

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Hey thank for the info.  I'll try to read it all at some point in the near future.

 

Paul

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2 hours ago, Fastback said:

Hey thank for the info.  I'll try to read it all at some point in the near future.

 

Paul

You will have to sort through the information and adapt it to your system, not all systems are the same, but you will learn a lot about dust collections and all the myths floating around.

Do it right when you do it and you will enjoy the performance and not have to worry about it later.

I put my cyclone in a sound proof enclosure, and rid the shop of all that noise.

Herb

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A suggestion about the Pentz site...it has quite a bit information, some of which you might not care about. To get what you're after more quickly, start with the FAQ section. The replies there usually link to the part of his site you want.

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