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John Morris

MWTCA June 2017 "What's It" Project

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Handsaws would not be apt to produce sparks when cutting even if they hit a nail. I had a job at a Navel base once where live munitions were stored and we had to go through kinds all of hoops to keep from making sparks, but didn't have to use copper plated handsaws,just no Skillsaws or drill motors. (Before Battery power tools).

My guess this handsaw is before power tools.

Herb

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On 6/1/2017 at 0:24 PM, HandyDan said:

It was my post on the musical saws that went missing.  It even had some likes on it and they are missing too.  Took a while to find these links again.  Musical saws were copper plated and also gold plated.  See link below.

 

http://www.sawlady.com/DifferentSaws.htm

 

This excerpt describes how they were copper plated and some were gold plated.

 

This was the "cadillac" of musical saws in 1937, selling for $25. How times have changed! Sold at auction in 2002 for $46, $51, $52, $61 and even $172.50. Sold for $102 in 2004, $100 Apr. 2005
Originally copper and then 14-karat gold-plated (a dollar's worth of gold in 1926), the gold has a tendency to either be polished off or evaporate. There is an etching that read "The Musical Saw - Special Temper Process Patented - MUSSEHL & WESTPHAL - Fort Atkinson, Wis." (on some saws an additional line is present - see photos below). Rhinestones are inserted in celuloid washers surrounding the gold plated bolts that hold the handle to the blade. The end 3 5/8" of the 26" blade has an additional rough coating to aid in holding the blade while playing. As the saw was not intended for woodwork, the 8 TPI (tooth per inch) blade has no set or file to the teeth.
Mahogony handle.
Discontinued in the 1950's.

 

 

 

I'd throw my hat in with this answer, musical saw.

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Copper coating is not just for looks,or eliminating sparks, it is also for preventing corrosion. Like aboard ship, saltwater takes its' toll on raw steel fast. Also they used to coat things with copper for lubrication.

It would help if we had a little more information, like the condition of the handle, rosettes,weather the teeth were filed,or set.

The picture is of poor quality even when magnified, I am not buying into the musical saw identification completely. If it had been that, it would have been better cared for and possibly had a case to protect it. This one has had oxidation,as shown by the fact that it was buffed off to show the copper in the picture. This indicates it was hung in a shed somewhere.

Just saying,

Herb

Edited by Dadio (see edit history)

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47 minutes ago, Dadio said:

e picture is of poor quality even when magnified, I am not buying into the musical saw identification completely. If it had been that, it would have been better cared for and possibly had a case to protect it. This one has had oxidation,as shown by the fact that it was buffed off to show the copper in the picture. This indicates it was hung in a shed somewhere.

Just saying,

 

Image result for vintage trumpet

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On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 0:09 AM, p_toad said:

winner buys donuts and then we get a new picture :lol:

 

No winner no donut and no chicken dinner either.

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Coming up! So sorry guys!

Actually MWTCA just got back with us this past weekend. Winner tonight!

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I am sad to say suggestions in this months "What's It" were not accepted.

 

We'd like to announce our random winner for the month of June What's It as @DuckSoup. Bobs name was drawn from our official TPW ball cap of the contributors who participated in MWTCA's What's It for the month of June!

Congrats Bob!!

 

Please PM me with your shipping address and we'll get an MWTCA membership out to you asap, along with all the benefits of being a member of this great organization.

Thank you all for your participation!

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1 hour ago, John Morris said:

I am sad to say suggestions in this months "What's It" were not accepted.

Did they determine why the saw was plated then? With all the evidence @HandyDan provided, hard to believe there could be any question or other solution in this instance.:huh:

 

@DuckSoup...Congratulations Bob...guess we're related now.:rolleyes:

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congrats Bob...

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14 hours ago, Grandpadave52 said:

Did they determine why the saw was plated then? With all the evidence @HandyDan provided, hard to believe there could be any question or other solution in this instance.:huh:

 

@DuckSoup...Congratulations Bob...guess we're related now.:rolleyes:

 

No they do not know either Gramps, but there is more proof too suggest that the saw is not a musical saw than there is proof that it is a musical saw, for example.

  • Per the link Handi Dan provide to http://www.sawlady.com/DifferentSaws.htm there is a reference to Disston manufacturing Musical Saws but if this were a Disston Musical Saw, then there would have been an "MS" stamped on the saw as well (we don't know because the image provided does not show the etching). There is no mention that this saw has "MS" stamped on the saw, only "Disston".
  • Also, at that link, they mention that the MUSSEHL & WESTPHAL company originally made their musical saws copper, but later they were made from gold. The saw is a Disston saw per the description at the beginning of this What's It topic, the copper saw referenced in that link is only a MUSSEHL & WESTPHAL, no mention of the copper saw being a Disston.
  • Here is a link to a modern copper saw, non sparking, yet non magnetic, suggesting that a copper saw was indeed beneficial for work that required non sparking tools. https://wholesalepowertools.com/cs-unitec-ex119-hand-saw-8-teeth-inch-std-size-copper-beryllium#.WXFzxOmQyUk

Here is a quote from the copper saw website:

Quote

CS Unitec's Non-sparking, Non-magnetic Hand Tools are manufactured from special Aluminum Bronze or Copper-Beryllium alloys for safe use in Ex zones where hazardous, flammable or combustible vapors, liquids, dusts or residues may be present.

Aluminum Bronze and Copper Beryllium Non-sparking Safety Tools from CS Unitec are specifically designed to eliminate the risk of sparks at sites where explosive atmospheres may be present.

Appropriate applications include oil drilling platforms, petrochemical plants, oil refineries, natural gas installations, ammunition plants, varnish factories, sugar refineries, grain silos, mining and other industries where non-sparking safety tools are required. The non-magnetic feature of these alloys also makes them ideal for working on special machinery with powerful magnets such as MRI machines, military de-mining and explosives.

 

Sorry for playing the Devil's advocate guys, MWTCA decides when a reference is "good enough", and apparently Dans reference was not good enough, I thought is was a great reference too, but once we start tearing it apart, well, it kind of fall's apart.

No offense @HandyDan!!! It was a great ref I thought as well!

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Just now, HandyDan said:

 

No harm, no foul here.  I did like the explanation rather than a plain "NO"

I agree.

On that note, I want to throw something out there, we'll take it up in another topic, at the Pulse Forum, I have an idea that maybe fun for all, and it'll improve the way winners are chosen for the What's It project.

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17 minutes ago, John Morris said:

Sorry for playing the Devil's advocate guys, MWTCA decides when a reference is "good enough", and apparently Dans reference was not good enough, I thought is was a great reference too, but once we start tearing it apart, well, it kind of fall's apart.

Thanks John for the follow-up explanation.

5 minutes ago, HandyDan said:

 

No harm, no foul here.  I did like the explanation rather than a plain "NO"

Me too...helps to better understand MWTCA criteria for validation.

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