Stick486 Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 29 minutes ago, p_toad said: as long as it didn't fog up (or my glasses) would contacts work in lieu of the glasses... HARO50 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Howe Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post billpentz Posted May 1, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 This is an area I know a bit about. Hopefully my post is not too late for this thread. What I have to share will probably anger many, it did me as well. First, most available woodworking respirator masks work poorly. I found my Trend Air Shield and Air Shield Pro, my Triton, and even my older Racal Pro all came with fine filters that freely passed the unhealthiest finest (less than 2-micron sized) particles. Only my better 3M units had ample filters. Only my Racal and 3M had good enough seals. None had very good batteries until I swapped out what they came with and built a new pack with high amperage hour removable separately chargeable cells. I only liked the 3M and Racal blowers, as the rest gave poor airflow especially as the filters dirtied. Second, fine wood dust lasts nearly forever unless it gets wet and with every 20 pounds of sawdust, we also make enough fine dust to cause 15,119 typical two-car garage sized shops to fail an EPA air quality test. This is why Cal-OSHA testing found most small shops that vent inside have so much built up fine invisible dust that just walking around without doing any more woodworking launches enough fine dust to fail an EPA air quality test. At the OSHA measured fine dust levels most small shop workers who vent inside breathe in more fine dust in a couple of hours than most full woodworkers who work in facilities that vent outside get in months. Third, I oversaw quite a bit of serious testing of almost every major brand of shop vacuum, air cleaner, dust collector and cyclone based dust collection system. That testing showed that the prior OSHA testing was pretty accurate in almost all come with far too open fine filters and lack the airflow needed for good collection. On average most small shop dust collectors and cyclone miss collecting over 15% of the fine dust we make. With woodworking making far too much fine dust this is bad news. Finally, good collection can be tough and expensive, but good protection is fairly easy and affordable. The best protection is to wear a good properly fit NIOSH approved respirator mask with dual HEPA quality cartridges and work outside or with our main doors open a bit and a strong fan blowing out a side door or window to create a good airflow through our shops to keep the fine dust from building. Our particle counters show for best protection we need to put on our respirator mask and start venting our shop before we start making fine dust and both the mask and fan need to stay on for about a half hour after we stop making fine dust. Gerald, Grandpadave52, Jim L and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpadave52 Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, billpentz said: Hopefully my post is not too late for this thread. What I have to share will probably anger many, it did me as well. Never too late Bill and angry or not, a wealth of good information and knowledge for any of us. Thanks for taking the time to post. BTW, Welcome to TPW...absolutely glad you're here and looking forward to more of your input and expertise. Always room for one more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Welcome aboard Bill, and thanks for the safety information. Unfortunately, most of us ignore the problem until it becomes a very personal problem. As a hobbiest, I never realized wood dust could be hazardous until I developed rashes and runny eyes while working with Western Red Cedar. How could something that smells so good as wood be hazardous to your health? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billpentz Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 4 hours ago, It Was Al B said: Welcome aboard Bill, and thanks for the safety information. Unfortunately, most of us ignore the problem until it becomes a very personal problem. As a hobbiest, I never realized wood dust could be hazardous until I developed rashes and runny eyes while working with Western Red Cedar. How could something that smells so good as wood be hazardous to your health? Al, Many woods contain very strong chemicals and oils which makes them taste bad and do bad things to predators. Some woods like cocobolo, ebony and rosewood can trigger a nasty reaction in a single few hour exposure. What really surprised me was not only how quickly I developed an allergic reaction, but also extensive allergy testing afterward showed me allergic to dozens of trees whose wood I had never worked ever. My respiratory allergist said this is common as we become allergic to a whole class of trees with similar chemicals, plus once allergic many other sensitizers set off reactions quicker, plus so do many other things besides wood. The good news at least for me is after a long time with no further exposure all settled to my being sensitive to just a few woods now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 @billpentz I appreciate your expertise and have a question. I use the Trend Airshield Pro and have to say it does the job for me. I so not cough when using it but I do if sweeping the shop w/o some protection. I have wondered about the filters as they look very much like cheap a/c filters. Is there a way to upgrade the filters such as adding a linen bag over the filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Good info Bill, thanks for sharing it. And, don't know why you think it would upset some folks. OTOH, some folks do get upset over the craziest things... Cal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyFN Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 On 2/9/2017 at 10:17 PM, Gerald said: Ron I use the Trend Airshield Pro and highly recommend it. Yes glasses will fit under it. I bought mine from a fellow club member as he did not like the weight on his head. Last year the fan slowed down and I called them so they said to send it in . They fixed it at no charge and sent a new style headband as the old ones were breaking. Well the old one broke within a month of me getting it back. Then last month the new style one broke. I called and they sent another new one. The original battery was almost dead ( I had purchased a second ) so I looked online and found someone who rebuilt his. I ordered the batteries and did the rebuild at a cost of less than $20. Also you will want the overlays for the faceshield to protect the plastic. The filters can be blown off , however they recommend replacement. Even in the dustiest areas I get no dust through these filters. I did wash the fabric part last week and it came out fine. It does get heavy sometime and I have to take it off periodically. Just give me a holler if you have any other questions. I saw something like that on NZ Wood turning on YouTube. It looked pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billpentz Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 On 5/2/2017 at 7:23 PM, Gerald said: @billpentz I appreciate your expertise and have a question. I use the Trend Airshield Pro and have to say it does the job for me. I so not cough when using it but I do if sweeping the shop w/o some protection. I have wondered about the filters as they look very much like cheap a/c filters. Is there a way to upgrade the filters such as adding a linen bag over the filter? Gerald, This is touchy as many use these and like them. However, if you look at the technical specifications for the Trend Air Shield Pro powered air purifying respirator (PAPR), the filters are as you observed, meaning little better than cheap a/c filters. I was so allergic just walking into dusty shops immediately caused me to clog up and lose my breath. Wanting to get back to woodworking I bought a Trend Air Shield because a wood turner friend recommended it if I could not find a no longer made Racal PAPR. It did not work, but I refused to give up so purchased a Triton then a Trend Air Shield Pro. Bottom line, all three left me forced to flee within minutes of any dust exposure. U.S. respirators must be tested and approved by NIOSH before they can be used as protective equipment. The Trend Air Shield Pro specifications sheet says, "Warning The TREND AIRSHIELD PRO is not a RESPIRATOR nor a NIOSH approved device." The same sheet also says, "Use for: Relief from the bothersome effects of the common nuisance dusts." The same is true of the Triton. I also tested both my Trend and my Triton filters at the university and found our fine calibrated unhealthiest under 5-micron dust went right through the filters. Upgrading to a finer 3M filter so choked the airflow I could not breathe with the Triton and Trend units. What did work was the older Racal I found then upgraded with new batteries and a 3M fine filter, my new expensive 3M Airshield, and my way too expensive 3M PAPR welding setup. Steve Krumanaker and Gerald 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Krumanaker Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 Great information Bill, I appreciate that you shared it. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 8 hours ago, billpentz said: Gerald, This is touchy as many use these and like them. However, if you look at the technical specifications for the Trend Air Shield Pro powered air purifying respirator (PAPR), the filters are as you observed, meaning little better than cheap a/c filters. specifications sheet says, "Warning The TREND AIRSHIELD PRO is not a RESPIRATOR nor a NIOSH approved device." The same sheet also says, "Use for: Relief from the bothersome effects of the common nuisance dusts." The same is true of the Triton. I also tested both my Trend and my Triton filters at the university and found our fine calibrated unhealthiest under 5-micron dust went right through the filters. Upgrading to a finer 3M filter so choked the airflow I could not breathe with the Triton and Trend units. Thanks for the info. Guess I am one of those no allergy people with only seasonal allergies, but like you said as I have gotten older dust can now get me coughing. So far the Trend Airshield Pro has helped a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billpentz Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 7 hours ago, Gerald said: Thanks for the info. Guess I am one of those no allergy people with only seasonal allergies, but like you said as I have gotten older dust can now get me coughing. So far the Trend Airshield Pro has helped a lot. Gerald, many call airborne wood dust nuisance dust, meaning it is only mildly irritating to most. By definition airborne dust particles are sized under 30-microns. For comparison a typical human hair is about 70-microns thick and we can only see down to about 10-microns without magnification. OSHA testing shows on average about 15% of the dust woodworking produces consists of airborne dust. Fine dust is defined as under 10-microns and it gets by our natural protections going deep into our lungs. Allergies are mostly made not born, meaning we develop allergies after too much exposure. Only one in seven is likely to develop severe allergies, but you already said you are susceptible because of your seasonal allergies. Your current mask will strip off two thirds of the airborne particles by weight, but that still lets one third go right through. Worse, what goes through are the fine invisible dust particles. You don't have my allergy problems, so might be able to get along fine for a long time. Frankly, has I not turned a bunch of cocobolo, rosewood, teak, and walnut pens, I probably would have only had some irritation. Turning those pretty strong sensitizing woods took me from zero allergies to a reaction that was so bad it hospitalized me. What worked for me was shifting over to a better quality filter, but I found the Trend did not have enough fan to handle the finer filter, so I ended up shifting to a far more expensive mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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